Transcript

ANNOUNCER: Some people react to the free grace position, saying it’s too free, it’s too easy. But then there is also the hyper-grace position, and what is the difference? Let’s talk about that today here on Grace in Focus, so glad that you have joined us today, friend. This is a ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society, and our website is faithalone.org. Hey, we also produced some videos, and you can see them on our YouTube channel, YouTube, Grace Evangelical Society. We release new ones each week, and we’d love for you to subscribe and view them regularly. Thank you. Once again, our website is faithalone.org, 

And now with today’s question and answer discussion, here are Bob Wilkin and Ken Yates. 

KEN: Bob, we got a question. This is a question for Bob Wilkin or Ken Yates. 

BOB: Oh, good. So, here we are. We both are here. Ken’s got a shirt on and says, “His Name is Wonderful”, and it’s got all the color of Wonder Bread, and then it says, underneath it, “Jesus is the Bread of Life”, John 6:35. Very nice. 

KEN: I’m all class. When I dress—

BOB: You are. Although you got your burrito all over it.

KEN: I know, I went to lunch, and I got—

BOB: You got to wash your stuff when he gets home. 

KEN: Well, John asked this question, and to be honest with you, I run into this question more when I’m overseas. You know, because people, at least over there, they think that free grace and hyper-grace are the same thing. At least some people do. I get that every now and then. 

John’s question is simply, what is the difference between free grace and hyper-grace, and then he mentions a pastor in Texas that says, I’m assuming a hyper-grace guy, who says that 1 John 1:7-9 is talking to unbelievers, and that 1 John is a book that’s evangelizing unbelievers. 

BOB: I’ve heard this. So, instead of talking about hyper-grace, let’s first lay out what is free grace, what we call focused free grace. The position basically concerns two things, everlasting life and eternal rewards. So, what do we say the conditions of each are? KEN: Okay. So, eternal life is by faith in Christ alone. I believe in Jesus for eternal life. And when I believe in him for it, I know I have it because he’s promised me that.  And he has nothing to do with works. Now, rewards, and I would also add fellowship. Yeah, because that’s going to come into play in 1 John. If I want to be rewarded, then I need to walk in obedience. I need to obey the Lord and walk by the Spirit. And if I do, then I will be rewarded. And so, free grace says that in the kingdom, all believers, everyone who has believed in Jesus will be in the kingdom, but they’re going to be some who are going to be rewarded greater than others.

BOB: That’s right. And also, we would say, and I didn’t point this out before, that there’s also blessings and cursings in this life. In other words, if the believer is walking in fellowship with God, then God blesses him. But if he’s walking out of fellowship with God, then God curses him. Now, that’s not what hyper-grace says, but that is what the free grace position says. So, we teach that the Old and New testament, both teach blessing and cursing. 

Now, here’s hyper-grace. And by the way, you get to kick out of this, Ken, because I was actually in a church, a Bible church in North Texas. I was actually an elder in that church when this was occurring. And the pastor came to the view that 1 John 1:9 was a salvation verse. We have to confess our sins, and then he’s faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness, and that’s how we’re born again. 

KEN: Let me just say a while back ago, I did a video for GES, and I did a clip of a preacher who was saying that same thing. But I didn’t associate—I’m glad that John asked his question, because I didn’t associate it with the hyper-grace position. This pastor was saying that 1 John was talking to unbelievers. And part of that, I’m sure is, since John is talking about the forgiveness of sins, part of that is, well, wait a second, haven’t believers have all their sins forgiven. And so, if John is offering the forgiveness of sins, people need the forgiveness of sins. He can’t be talking about believers. But see, Bob and I both disagree with that. We say no—believers do need their sins forgiven when they sin. 

BOB: Right. And even in John 13 with the foot washing, Jesus says you’re clean, but not all of you. And he says, look, if a person is clean, they don’t need their whole body washed like Peter says, okay, Lord, wash me from head to toe. He says, no, the one who’s clean only needs his feet wash, you know, because their sandals would get dust and dirty, etc. So he washes the disciples’ feet. But that illustrates the fact of first John 1:7, “If we walk in the light as He is in the light, then the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.” 

And the basic point, now, when I was in this church and I was an elder, the pastor was not only saying that 1 John 1:9 is a salvation verse, but he was also saying that believers are never—have you heard this—out of fellowship with God? 

KEN: Oh, yeah. And that would be a hyper-grace position. So I, I guess we need to define about hyper-grace means.

BOB: Different people use it to mean different things. Michael Brown, I think uses hyper-grace to talk about our free grace position, you know, that you’re saved by grace through faith apart from works. I think that’s how Brown uses it. But when this question or John is asking it, I think what he means is the person who says, 1 John 1:9 is a salvation verse and that we’re never out of fellowship with God. And they even go to the point to say God is never angry with believers. He never has wrath toward believers. And He never brings about any chastisement in our life for our sins. 

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BOB: He never brings about any chastisement in our life for our sins. In other words, if we do something wrong, we get the natural consequences of it. But there’s nothing God has determined, okay, I’m going to specifically do this to this person because they’ve walked in rebellion to me. 

KEN: There’s no discipline. 

BOB: There’s no discipline other than natural discipline. In other words, if the person is sleeping around enough, they’re eventually going to get some STD. But how do you explain that one person, one time sleeps around and gets an STD and the other person doesn’t get an STD til the 40th time or something—

KEN: Or never gets it. 

BOB: And the answer is God is sovereign and God determines all those things. And ultimately, we need to see that the hyper-grace position is wrong. We can be out of fellowship with God. We do need our feet washed. We do need ongoing cleansing. 1 John 1:9 is a sanctification verse. And God does sometimes have wrath toward believers. That’s why Hodges’ commentary on Romans—the subtitle is called Deliverance from Wrath. 

KEN: Wrath is what sin brings into the life of whoever. 

BOB: Right. But of the believer especially. He takes, “the gospel’s the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes”, in Romans 1:16-17, to refer to deliverance from God’s wrath here and now. 

KEN: Right. That it is the power to deliver me from the wrath that sin brings into my life.

BOB: Right. So the hyper-grace position sounds good. You know, we’re always in fellowship with God. God’s never displeased with us. We’re born again by confessing our sins. But part of the problem there is, where does 1 John 1:9 mention believing in Jesus? I don’t remember. Is that in the NIV or something? I don’t see it in 1 John 1:9.

KEN: Right. And where does 1 John 1:9 talk about eternal life? 

BOB: It doesn’t, does it? 

KEN: No, no, it doesn’t. 

BOB: And so John 3:16 talks about believing in Jesus for eternal life. 1 John 1:9 has no believing in no eternal life. It does have Jesus in there. If we confess our sins, “He” referring Jesus. 

KEN: But doesn’t have believing in Him. 

BOB: No. And it doesn’t have everlasting life. So how that could be a salvation verse is rather bizarre. And if that were the case, then wouldn’t you say then that everybody in every religion who confessed their sins would be born again? Why would you have to be in a Christian religion? Couldn’t a Muslim that confessed their sins wouldn’t they be born again? And wouldn’t a Buddhist that confessed their sins or a Mormon or a Jehovah’s Witness? Why would you have to be in an evangelical church? 

KEN: That’s a good point. It’s interesting something you mentioned earlier, a lot of times people think the grace position is the hyper-grace. And I know you’ve heard this. I mentioned I hear about quote unquote hyper-grace when I go overseas sometimes. And they get very confused about it because what they say is, oh, well, if you believe you’re once saved always saved, you believe you can’t lose it no matter what sin you commit. Well, you’re saying that sin doesn’t matter. You can live however you want. And so they don’t see that distinction. 

BOB: Absolutely. And you know, as Sharon often said to me, because there were times early in my preaching when I would say something like, look, no matter what you do, once you believe in Jesus, you’re secure forever. If you become an alcoholic, you’re secure forever. You become an immoral person, a hit man, you’re secure forever, right? Whatever it is, you’re secure forever. And Sharon said, and I think she was right, you need to add a disclaimer and say, however, if you become any of those things, you’re going to reap the whirlwind. You’re going to reap the consequences. And that’s the free grace position. 

KEN: And that’s the difference between free grace and hyper-grace. 

BOB: Right. Hyper-grace is you don’t reap anything. 

KEN: There you go. 

BOB: Unless hypothetically, there’s some natural consequence that comes. But according to the free grace position, if you’re an alcoholic, you’re going to reap the consequences of being an alcoholic. You know, look at the book of Proverbs. The way of wisdom is the way of life. But the way contrary to wisdom is the way of death, we’re to follow the path of wisdom. And Solomon is calling out, “me” personifies wisdom. It’s crying out to follow me, follow the wise path. Psalm 1 is like that, right? Blessed is man who does not walk in the council of the ungodly. 

KEN: And we’d also have to say that the hyper-grace position has no room for rewards.

BOB: I don’t see how it could. 

KEN: Well, it couldn’t if if God’s not going to discipline, because the loss of rewards is part of that discipline, right? The loss of rewards is the punishment for our sins. 

BOB: So everybody gets a trophy. Everybody rules and reigns with Christ. Everybody here is well done, good and faithful servant. 

KEN: The hyper-grace position, if they’re going to be consistent, has to say that. And my guess is they do. I don’t know enough about it, but I’m guessing that the hyper-grace position would have no teachings on rewards because, well, God’s just happy with everyone where He’s in fellowship with all believers all the time. 

BOB: I guess. I think a lot of these people, it’s kind of like this equity position that we want everybody to have an equal outcome. 

KEN: Right. Which is by the way is common throughout all of Christendom, right? That there’s not going to be rewards. But the free grace position is very heavy on rewards. And that’s that Sharon’s “you need to put a disclaimer in this”, that you’re going to lose rewards if you’re out of fellowship with the Lord. 

BOB: And you’ll be judged here and now.

KEN: Exactly. You’re going to lose rewards here, of intimacy with the Lord, fellowship with the Lord, part of it, and also rewards in the kingdom. 

BOB: Right. And you may get diseases. You may get a divorce. You may not get to see your kids anymore. You may be losing your job. You may be losing your finances. You may be homeless, all because you decided to walk away from the Lord. Not a wise move.

KEN: And the wrath of God’s on your life. Well, thank you, John. We hope this helps as we discuss the difference between free grace and hyper-grace. And always remember, keep grace in focus. 

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And on our next episode: is having faith for eternal salvation a gift from God? We will look for you. Come back and join us. And until then, let’s keep grace in focus.