ANNOUNCER: Today, we will be discussing more about believers and addictions, and how do we relate the vice list in the Bible to those? Can someone be enslaved, struggling with an addiction, and yet enduring in their faith? Well, thank you friend for joining us today. This is Grace in Focus. It is a broadcast and podcast ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society. Our website, faithalone.org. And we want you to go there to learn about our national annual conference. It’s coming up soon. Get registered today. May 18th through the 21st are the dates. It is at Camp Copass, a great Christian camp in Denton, Texas. Beautiful views, great fellowship, great sessions, and VBS for the kids. Get registered today at faithalone.org/events. 

Now, with today’s question and answer discussion, here is Bob Wilkin, along with Ken Yates. 

KEN: This is part two of a question that was sent in by Brad, but we were also asked a question by Kit that’s related to this. And Brad had asked a question, how do we counsel people who suffer with addiction, such as alcoholism or pornography and the problems that they have? They want to live a life that pleases the Lord. They want to be rewarded at the Judgment Seat of Christ, but they have struggles that people who don’t have those addictions don’t go through. And Kit asked a related question, and we’ve talked about this before. What about a person who endures in the faith, but they struggle in a particular area? 

And I want to just apply this now to one of these addictions, and particularly as it relates to the vice lists in 1 Corinthians 6 and also in Galatians. For example, in 1 Corinthians 6, Paul talks about people who will not inherit the kingdom. And he lists things, for example, like fornicators or drunkards or revilers. 

BOB: Or even envy and jealousy are on the list. Or outbursts of wrath. 

KEN: And in the previous episode, you talked about how alcoholics, like you grew up in an alcoholic home, that outbursts of anger is a common thing among alcoholics. 

BOB: And their children. 

KEN: Yeah, so let’s say again with Kit and Brad’s question, let me, if I could summarize it, it’d be something like this. Okay, I have this addiction. I become a believer. I understand I have eternal life. I want to please a Lord. I’m striving to please Him. I’m coming to ask him, but I have this addiction. Now again, some would say, well, if you really were relying on the Lord, you wouldn’t have these issues. 

BOB: And that would drive that person away from Christ and away from victory. 

KEN: Okay, so let’s, let’s look at this vice list here in 1 Corinthians 6 and the other ones. So let’s say I’m addicted to pornography and I struggle with it. And I’m going to the Lord and I’m doing better and better and better, but I still struggle with it. Would I be able to look at this vice list and say, you know, I’m, you know, I’m married. I’m looking at this porn every now and then like that. And would I be disqualified from reigning with Christ, inheriting the kingdom. Or, outbursts of anger. I’m an alcoholic. And I’m much better, but I still have these outbursts of anger. How would we do that? And that’s also based upon, but I’m enduring. I’m fellowshipping with believers. Maybe I’m even teaching a Sunday school class. I’m teaching sound doctrine, but this addiction, how would we respond to something like that? 

Now I know on the last one, let me just say this, we need to leave this up to the Lord. Realize that He’s the one who’s going to judge us at the Judgment Seat of Christ. And He’s not going to judge us by the same standards, right? Someone who doesn’t struggle with these things are going to be judged with a different standard than those who do.

BOB: You know, first of all, I think I would say that it’s important to recognize that this isn’t just people dealing with some major addiction. If a person has any issues in their marriage, if they have any issues with their children, with parenting, if they have any financial issues, maybe they’re not been wise in the use of their money, right? And so they’re heavily in debt or whatever. All of those things can lead a person to wonder, am I going to rule and reign with Christ and the life to come, right? You don’t have to be someone who’s a recovering alcoholic or a person who, you know, has some of the issues you’ve described in order to say, okay, I’m having some concerns about myself. In fact, if you’re a perfectionist, hi, I’m Bob, I’m recovering perfectionist. If you’re like that, you need to be real careful because you can beat yourself up over everything, right? Every area of life. 

So one of the things I’d point out is, first of all, on the vice list, it’s not just the mortal sins that the Catholic Church talks about. But you’ve got envy, you’ve got jealousy, you’ve got strife there, or outbursts of anger. And so what I would suggest is I think there is a certain mystery here, because we know from other Scripture that if we endure, we will reign with Him. And the enduring seems to be enduring in my confession of Christ as well as keeping His commandments. 

But yet, we also have the vice list. So do the vice lists somehow override the promise Jesus says, “He who confesses Me before men, him will I confess before My father who is in heaven. He who denies Me before men. He will I deny before My Father who is in heaven,” Matthew 10:32-33. So there’s two options. One option is, if you are an abiding, confessing believer, you will not be caught up in the sins of the vice list. I don’t believe that’s true. The second option is it’s possible for a person who is enduring in their confession of Christ to struggle with envy or jealousy or strife or alcohol or immorality or other issues. And what I would say is that when he gives the vice list, he’s not saying if you commit any of these sins, then you’re not going to rule and reign with Christ. 

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BOB: I think what he’s saying is if you are enslaved to sin, which these are examples of someone who’s enslaved to sin, then you’re not going to rule and reign with Christ. And if you read Roman 6, for example, you know, Paul talks about the fact that you were slaves of sin, but now you’ve been set free. Roman 6:16, 17, 18. Now you’re a slave of righteousness in your position. So that I would say even the person who has the addiction, the people that Brad or Kit are talking to, those people have experienced, if they have been any length of time growing in the faith, they’ve experienced some measure of growth and some measure of victory over these things. 

And so you don’t look at yourself and go, do I ever get jealous again? Do I ever get envious again? The question is, am I enslaved to jealousy? Am I enslaved to envy? Am I enslaved to alcohol? Am I enslaved to that? And I would say that the believer who is confessing Christ, if they’ve grown beyond carnal status, if they’ve grown to be spiritually minded, then they are not going to be enslaved in these things. It doesn’t mean they don’t experience these sins. 

Now, like, I’ve never been drunk. I’ve never had more than a little sip of alcohol, really. I don’t take any comfort in that. I’m just glad I don’t drink. But there’s a lot of the other things like strife or envy or jealousy or outbursts of anger. Those things I have seen lots of growth in, but they’re not completely gone. 

KEN: Again, I don’t want to justify things or excuse maybe my own behavior or behavior I see in others. Would we say something like these things can be present in a believer’s life? But the one who is enduring, the one who’s wanting to please the Lord, we could say, yeah, they’re there. But I don’t want them to be there. I’m confessing these things. Yeah, I do them. Whereas the, maybe, the I’m going to use your word. The ones who are enslaved is the believer who says, yeah, I’m doing it. I like it. And I’m not even, I don’t even want to change. I don’t want to do anything. 

BOB: Okay. That’s a good point. Maybe it’s like the prodigal son. In other words, that guy will fully went off into the far country. He’s willfully groveling in these sins, right? But you can have another person who stayed at home. He’s still in fellowship with the Father. He’s confessed. Like you say, confessing his sins, his desire is to please him. He’s seen minor growth, but he’s not seeing the kind of level of growth he would want. I like your explanation to even better than mine. 

KEN: Well, you know, I think about a guy that I knew in the military who came to me one time, he was a believer. And it was hard for me to relate to because I didn’t grow up in an alcoholic home, but I also didn’t grow up with this. And he really, really struggled with pornography. And he told me his story. When he was seven, his mom divorced and married a guy. And when he was seven, his stepfather brought him in and every night would watch porn with him, the guy’s seven years old. When I knew him, he was in his late thirties. I mean, there were tears coming down his face, you know. 

BOB: He did not want it. 

KEN: He did not want it, but he, and he was married. And his wife didn’t understand. He was telling me, my wife don’t understand it. And he was, many Christians will look at someone like that and go, well, you’re not going to reign with Christ. You know, but he obviously was struggling with this and didn’t want to do it. And so that’s one of the people I have in mind as I’m thinking. 

BOB: Kind of like my counselor friend who said, if they don’t hurt themselves, that’s a victory. 

KEN: Yeah, we’ve gone this way. Yeah. 

BOB: Yeah. And so I don’t know, I would tend to, I like your characterization that if the person is confessing his sin, if he’s crying out to God to change him, then it’s hard to say that he’s guilty of the vice list because he’s not someone who is wantonly doing these things. 

KEN: Yeah. Looking at porn and enjoying it. 

BOB: He hates it, right? It’s not something he wants to do. And I think the other part of it is we need to realize that there is some level of mystery between the vice list and the enduring in the faith. Yeah, we talked about that in a previous and however we explain that, I think it’s clear that if a person stays apart of the believing community and is confessing Christ and walking with Christ, confessing their sins, they’re going to have some level of rulership in the life to come. 

But if you have a person, let’s say you have a person who’s just, you know, very morally upright, but then the last year of their life, they stop going to church, they stop confessing Christ and they’re no longer enduring in the faith. Well, that person’s not going to rule and reign with Christ even though they were such an exemplary believer for 40 or 50 years. We’ve got to finish well. 

And so what I would say about this 39 year old guy is, please be patient, God is not finished with me yet. You’re working with him. He’s desiring to change. I believe that over time, this guy would get better and he would find measure of victory, if not complete victory. 

KEN: But he might not. And he’ll always, he might always struggle with it. Well, the Judgment Seat of Christ is going to be an interesting event. 

BOB: It really is. 

KEN: Well, thank you Brad and thank you Kit for that question. We hope this will cause you to think through some of these very difficult issues as well. So thanks, but remember always keep grace in focus. 

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On our next episode: study Bible recommendations. Please join us and in the meantime, let’s keep grace in focus.