Transcript

ANNOUNCER: This is Grace in Focus. Welcome. Today we are answering a question: if a believer becomes a disciple, and then later falls away from following Christ, is it better for that person to never have become a disciple? Well, stay tuned, we will talk about it. We’re glad you’re with us today, friend. This is a ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society. We are located in North Texas, and there’s lots to learn about us at our website, faithalone.org. We have a subscription-free magazine. Just sign up for it. It is free. You only have to pay the postage if you live outside of the 48 contiguous United States. We also have lots of articles that are free to you and books in our bookstore. And find out about our national annual conference coming up in May, May 18th through the 21st. Faithalone.org. 

And now with today’s discussion, here are Bob Wilkin and Sam Marr. 

SAM: Ron is asking a really good question about discipleship and rewards. So this is very relevant to believers, not so relevant to unbelievers. But so his question essentially is, is it better to become a disciple and follow in Christ’s footsteps and reap a certain amount of rewards, but then have a great fall or a great failing and fall away from the faith and fall out of fellowship with God, or is it better to have never taken your first step down the path of discipleship? I assume he’s still talking about a believer. So to be a believer, but to never become a disciple, you just believe and then live carnally, I guess, is what he’s asking. Which of those two options is better? Live carnally or fall as a disciple? 

BOB: Okay. Now, we talked about this before the show, because he mentions quite a few verses and I couldn’t understand why he mentioned verses like Matthew 10:42, “Even a cup of cold water given in My name won’t go without its reward.” And I couldn’t understand why I was asking that or he asked about another verse. 

SAM: Hebrews16. 

BOB: Yeah, God won’t forget our labor. And what I came to realize is that what he’s asking is, if you serve Christ for a length of time as a disciple and then fall away, is that not going to result in some permanent eternal rewards? Isn’t that better than never having been on the path of discipleship? And the answer to that question is yes. I call these instant winners, like when you have this scratch-off thing and you find out you’ve won a bag of french fries or you’ve won a Coke or something or a Big Mac, whatever it is. Well, Jesus said, “Don’t lay up treasure on earth where moth and rust destroy and thieves break in and steal, but lay up treasure in heaven where moth and rust can’t destroy and thieves can’t break in or steal. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” Matthew 6:19-21. 

And I call those instant winners because if I pray so as to be seen by God, but not man, I pray in secret, Jesus promises there’ll be a reward for that. If I give in secret, so my left hand doesn’t know my right hand is doing, and I’m doing it for the right motive to please God, and I picked a ministry that’s actually a good ministry, one that’s a reasonable investment, then I’m going to have eternal treasure. And the same thing with fasting, if I fast, not to be seen by men, but to be seen by God and to please God, then there’s a treasure there. 

So on the one hand, he’s right, in terms of our eternal experience, if we enter into discipleship and later fall away, it’s still better for us in eternity than if we’d never entered into discipleship. But that’s a different question than saying, is it better for me in this life here and now to enter into discipleship and fall away, or never enter into discipleship.

Let me give you an example and then we’ll look at a passage in 2 Peter. When I was at Dallas Seminary in my first year, I knew a fourth year student. He was also in the New Testament department like I was. This young man had come to faith while he was in college, and he had gotten involved with Navigators and he had memorized a chapter of Scripture every week for several years while he was in college. Then when he got to Dallas Seminary his first year, I think he was the vice president of the first year class. And he was walking with the Lord very faithfully. When he first came to faith, he was a very nice new believer. So he was immature in the faith. He hadn’t grown in his faith, but that’s his baseline. He with me, what I mean by baseline, he ended up at Dallas Seminary and he married. And his fourth year, when I knew him, his wife was pregnant that whole year, she was going to give birth right around the end of the semester and like she was going to give birth in June. Well, I found out like in late April or early May, just before graduation, he left his wife for another woman. Some woman he had met while he was cruising around Dallas, looking for people to pick up and he picked up some woman, and he left his wife for another woman. 

Well, when the Scripture says the latter state for that man was worse than the first, what it means is, this friend of mine was far worse after he had been a disciple for Christ for five or six years than before he ever started on the path of discipleship. In other words, as a brand new believer before he was discipled, before he grew, he was better than the kind of man who would leave his wife who was eight months pregnant or nine months pregnant for another woman. 

Let’s look at a passage. Turn with me, Sam, and maybe you can read it, to 2 Peter 2:18-22. And by the way, I have an article on this at faithalone.org. [Click here for the article.] I’d encourage you to read it if you have time because I go into lots of detail. 

ANNOUNCER: It’s coming, it’ll be here before you know it. What am I talking about? The Grace Evangelical Society’s National Conference 2026, May 18th through the 21st at Camp Copass, an absolutely beautiful campground in North Texas right on the lake with lots of recreation, great food, a great place to stay, wonderful fellowship, and wonderful Free Grace Bible teaching. Information and online registration now at faithalone.org/events. First timers waive registration fees. Faithalone.org/events.

BOB: But pay attention, as Sam is reading this, to the third person plural, they, them, that sort of thing. There’s two different groups involved in 2 Peter 2:18-22. One are the false teachers, and the other are the people who are misled by the false teachers. I call them the dupes. 

SAM: He says, “For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure the lusts of the flesh through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. For if, after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: ‘A dog returns to its own vomit,’ and, ‘A sow, having washed, to her own wallowing in the mire.’ “ 

BOB: So a lot of people think that what Peter’s talking about here is false professors, people who claim to have believed in Christ, but who didn’t really, because Peter wouldn’t call believers dogs or pigs, he wouldn’t relate them to dogs and pigs. But if you read the passage carefully and notice the third person plural, you’ll see that it is the false teachers who are promising other people liberty, but what they’re actually putting them in is bondage to sin. Notice what he says, “for if when they speak,” so that “they” is the false teachers. “Great swelling words of emptiness, they,” the false teachers, “allure through the lust of the flesh through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped.” That’s not just believers. That’s believers who have begun advancing on the path of discipleship. So they’ve escaped the worldly practices and they’re walking a godly life. 

And he says, “escape from those who live in error, while they promise them liberty.” The first “they” is the false teachers, the “them” are what I call the dupes. “They themselves are slaves of corruption for by whom a person is overcome,” that’s what he’s brought into bondage. “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world,” that is the new believers who have begun the path of discipleship. 

Notice “through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,” that doesn’t mean through being born again. That means getting to know Him on the path of discipleship. And then he says, “they are again entangled in them and overcome.” In other words, this isn’t somebody who just cusses or something or someone who has an angry outburst, he becomes entangled and ensnared in a worldly lifestyle. 

And it says, “the latter end is worse from them than the beginning.” In other words, imagine somebody climbing a mountain, the paper I told you about at our website, I talked about, you know, free climb, you’re a climber, right? Do you ever do free climbing on, but you know people who do, right? You know of that. Well, if you climb up about 40 or 50 feet, it’s called the kill zone. And if you fall from about 50 feet, you’re a dead man. Basically, what Peter is saying is, if you climb on the mountain of righteousness, the knowledge of God, and then you fall, well, then you’re going to experience a situation that’s worse if you’d never even begun. 

Notice what he says, “the latter state for them is worse than the beginning for it would have been better than them not to have known the way of righteousness.” That’s not the new birth, this is the pathway of righteousness. “Then to have known it to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.” And then it says it’s like a dog going back to his vomit or a pig having washed returning to wallow in the mire. 

And so the point is, we as believers, if we are walking in the light, 1 John 1:7, He cleanses us, right, from all sin. We shouldn’t be going back in the pig stye. 1 John 1:9, if we confess our sins, He forgives us and He cleanses us. But if we go back to the original way, it’s worse. And so there are situations where doctors, lawyers, fall away from the Lord, they end up on Skid Row, they’re homeless and they’re ending up at the Union Gospel Mission. These situations are where often before they start in the path of discipleship, they’re a much better person than after they fall. 

So yes, any treasure we laid up will be there. And so it’s going to enhance our eternal experience to some degree. Now, if the person falls away and stays there, they’re not going to rule and reign with Christ because that’s what I call perseverance price. If we endure, we’ll reign with Him, 2 Timothy 2:12. But Peter doesn’t actually say if this person ever comes back. He’s just saying, if you have this calamitous fall, your situation at that point is worse than it was when you started the path of discipleship. 

There is a risk in following Christ because if we fall away, we may end up worse. I may never have been drunk in my life, which I haven’t. But if I were to fall away, I might become an alcoholic. I might become a cocaine addict. I might be a person that’s in the gutter and I’ve never been there before. 

So yes, we need to realize, one of the passages he also cites is Luke 14 where Jesus tells disciples to count the cost of a discipleship. So yeah, we need to count the cost. But the rewards far outweigh any cost, as long as we stay on the path. 

SAM: And learning about the reward, learning about all these topics helps us stay on that path rather than lose our focus and fall off. 

BOB: And speaking of focus, what we need to do is keep grace in focus. 

ANNOUNCER: Be sure to check out our daily blogs at faithalone.org. They are short and full of great teaching, just like what you’ve heard today. Find them at faithalone.org/resources/blog. We would like to thank all of our financial partners who help us keep this show going. All gifts are tax deductible and very much appreciated. If you’d like to find out how you can be a financial partner, visit us at faithalone.org.

On our next episode: a question about eternal security. Please be sure to join us and until then, let’s keep grace in focus.