Transcript

ANNOUNCER: We welcome you to the Grace in Focus broadcast and podcast. Today, Bob Wilkin and Steve Elkins are discussing a sermon that was preached about a believer’s necessity to examine himself, to be assured of possessing eternal salvation. Should we do this? Is it beneficial? Let’s talk about it. Grace in Focus is brought to you by the Grace Evangelical Society. We have a website where you can learn a lot about us. One thing on that website is our online seminary which you can attend for free if you maintain a B average and you can earn an MDiv degree. You can apply and register and all the other things you need to do at our website, faithalone.org.

And now with today’s discussion here are Bob Wilkin and Steve Elkins.

BOB: Welcome Steve.

STEVE: Good to be back. How you doing, Bob?

BOB: Yeah, I’m doing well. I understand you had your shoulder looked at yesterday, I guess.

STEVE: A little arthritis. I’m too young for that, but I got it.

BOB: Yeah, I went last week for my knee and I had arthritis in my knee. It’s just part of getting older. It’s part of the curse, you know, the fall and everything.

So I have a sermon, someone named Brian sent me a sermon he heard recently. And the sermon was by Marty Lyons who’s an elder at a church in Illinois. The guy’s obviously sharp. I think he said he studied nuclear physics in college and grad school. So, sharp guy and we’re going to listen to the first part of it. We’ll have a couple of episodes about this. In this sermon, it’s entitled “A Tested Faith: James 1:1-8”, he goes through various verses in the Old and New Testament and he’s wanting the people in his congregation and those of us who are watching it online to look at our lives to see if we have the marks of being a what he calls a possessor, not just a professor. Have you heard this one, Steve?

STEVE: Yeah, I have too many times.

BOB: And so he’s talking about the epistle of James, but he actually spends most of his time on other passages and things. And we’re going to listen to a few clips from him and then we’ll respond. But this first clip is where he is going through a whole litany of passages one after another, after another, which talk about examining ourselves. And his view is every person in the church he’s talking to, which is a big church, should be doubting whether they’re born again or not. Play clip number one.

CLIP NUMBER ONE: We are commanded throughout Scripture to examine and test our faith and make sure it is genuine. So we’re going to do a lot of flipping around in the Bible today, but these verses are going to be up on the screen. Psalm 2:62, “Prove me, O Lord, and try me, test my heart and my mind.” Psalm 139:23, “Search me, O God, and know my heart, try me, and know my thoughts.” Lamentations 3:40, “Let us test and examine our ways and return to the Lord.” Galatians 6:4, “Let each one test his own work.” 2 Corinthians 13:5, “Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith, test yourselves.” Haggai 1:5, “Thus says the Lord of hosts, consider your ways.” So as we enter this day of James, we want to take an opportunity to do self-reflection. We want to examine ourselves, make sure we’re really in the faith. Believe me, there are plenty of people in the world today who are professors, but not possessors, meaning they profess to know Christ, but in their heart, they do not have a relationship with Him. They have head knowledge, but they do not have heart knowledge.

BOB: Wow, Steve, isn’t that something?

STEVE: It’s something, head knowledge and heart knowledge too. I know we’ve talked about that a lot in the past. It’s a sad distinction. No distinction in the Bible about it. You either believe something or you don’t, and of course, you would believe, Romans 10, in your heart, your inner being, but there’s no difference between head or heart.

BOB: Right. And you know, heart is often used for the inner person, even splanchna, your bowels, can refer to your compassion and that sort, seat of compassion. But notice here, he goes through a whole litany of passages. And what they’re all saying is we want God to test us. We want Him to examine us. He wants to have us examine ourselves, and we’re to consider our own ways. Right? And there’s no question in the Bible that God commands this. The question is, is He doing it for the reason that this preacher says, so that we can determine if we’re born again or not? I mean, if that’s the point then, how would someone know they were born again, Steve? How would they know they have enough works to prove that they’re a possessor, not a professor?

STEVE: It would be absolutely impossible. The more sensitive you are, the more you’d realize.

BOB: So why would you never know if you were examining your works? Wouldn’t you at some point go, yeah, I’ve got enough.

STEVE: Yeah. Well, I think if you’re the least bit sensitive, you’d realize, especially if you might not be a believer or doubt whether you’re a believer or not, I lifted my righteousness to the Lord and it was like filthy rags. My righteous deeds, he says. And so, it’s not just a matter if we have enough works, but the quality of our works, the motive behind them and so forth. I mean, we would be on a never-ending rabbit trail chasing our tail trying to figure things out.

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BOB: The question is, is he doing it for the reason that this preacher says, so that we can determine if we’re born again or not? I mean, if that’s the point then, how would someone know they were born again, Steve? How would they know they have enough works to prove that they’re a possessor, not a professor?

STEVE: It would be absolutely impossible. It’s not just a matter if we have enough works, but the quality of our works, the motive behind them, and so forth. I mean, we would be on a never-ending rabbit trail chasing our tail trying to figure things out.

BOB: Yeah, I agree. It seems to me that if you saw any sin in your life, you would realize you’re imperfect, right? I mean, if you’ve ever gotten in an argument with your wife or your husband, or if you ever experienced road rage, or if you ever went through depression, or guilt, or anxiety, even though depression, or anxiety, or even guilt, are not sin, but lots of people equate those with sin, but my point is, you’re right about being sensitive. Perfectionists would really have trouble with what he’s saying.

STEVE: Sure. And back to deeds again, you know, of course, one of the themes of the New Testament is by the deeds of the law, shall no flesh be justified, right after that, Paul refers to works or deeds of any kind. He says, but to him who does not work, he doesn’t qualify it, any works pre-Christian or even post-conversion, post-faith works. To him who does not work, but believes on him who justifies the ungodly, his faith, her faith is counted for righteousness.

BOB: So yes, the Bible tells us that we’re to test ourselves, but what’s the point of the testing?

STEVE: Well, I think, Bob, that, especially in the New Testament, the testings are for our maturity. For instance, testing our faith, like he says, fire would test gold and get the impurities out of our character, conduct, our faith, if you will, even. And, like, you know, James and Peter both talk about, you were grieved by various trials that the testing of our faith might be found, not whether we’re saved or not, but whether we’re going to get praise and glory and honor before Christ one day as believers.

BOB: Right. In fact, 2 Corinthians 13:5, test yourself to see if you’re in the faith. We’ve talked about this before on the show, but what people miss is in the first four verses of 2 Corinthians 13, he’s pointing out that they’ve been testing him. They’ve been looking at Paul and saying, maybe you really don’t speak for Christ.

STEVE: Exactly. They’re saying, and Paul says to them, you want proof that Christ is in me and speaking through me? Well, you’re the proof itself, but then he says a famous verse that the people would use on this subject to say, test or examine yourselves as to whether you’re in the faith, but that’s the key word, the faith. I think, Bob, interact with this, but I think that refers to whether you’re in the whole parameter, if you will, of Christian doctrine, not whether you have belief or not, whether you’re in the faith.

BOB: Right. In fact, if you relate it to them questioning whether Paul speaks for Christ, his point would be, well, do you speak for Christ? Are you in the faith in terms of your experience? He’s not talking about their position. In fact, it’s interesting that the Greek words dokimos and adokimos occur all through this passage, and dokimos means approved, like in the AWANA verse, approved workman that need not be ashamed. And adokimos as Paul uses it of himself in 1 Corinthians 9:27, he says, he disciplines his body and brings it into subjection lest when he has preached others, I myself might be adokimos, disapproved. And here he says, I trust you know that we are not adokimoi. we’re not disapproved. But the point is he wants them to be approved, and to be in the faith here doesn’t mean in the faith, in their position. It means they’re walking in Christian doctrine.

STEVE: Very interesting. In fact, the verses I was just referring to like in 1 Peter about the testing of your faith is the verb dokimazo. And so, you know, the testing like you would test metals or whatever and burn the impurities out and so forth.

BOB: Right. So the point is that what this preacher is getting wrong is that he thinks what needs to be tested is whether we’re born again. And what scripture says again and again and again is to test ourselves to see if we’re walking in fellowship with God.

STEVE: Exactly. Bob, right before came to the office. I got an email from a young lady that I had emailed back and forth maybe a year ago. And she’s asking about belief and she’s examining, you know, self-examining whether she’s believed or not. She’s, frankly, she is a little bit obsessive-compulsive, she says so. And she has these thoughts where she, just recurring thoughts, of doubting whether she’s believed and the reasons why on that. And one of the things I said to her is, Shirley, that’s not her name, but Shirley, the New Testament never, not one time, tells us to examine our faith whether we believe or not, or our belief. Let’s say it like that. Not one time.

BOB: Right. No, that’s exactly right. You know, we’re going to have to go to a second session on this because I’ve got a couple more clips. And we’re not going to have time to go through them. But let me just mention this sermon is called, “A Tested Faith: James 1:1-8”. And in this sermon, what the preacher is trying to do is to help the listeners know if they’re born again. And we’re going to listen to a few more clips in the next episode and see if he actually helps the listeners to find out if they’re born again by examining themselves.

Well, in the meantime, Steve, let’s remember to encourage all our listeners to keep grace in focus. Amen.

ANNOUNCER: Would you be interested in some free e-books on topics you hear on this program? Well, if you are, you need to come visit us at faithalone.org. That’s faithalone.org. We would love to hear from you. Maybe you’ve got a question, comment, or some feedback. If you do, please don’t hesitate to send us a message. Here’s our email address. It’s radio@faithalone.org. That’s radio@faithalone.org. And when you do, very important, please let us know your radio station call letters and the city of your location.

On our next episode, we continue this discussion. We hope you’ll join us and until then, let’s keep grace in focus.