In 1 John 3:15, John writes, “Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” Those of us in the Free Grace movement maintain that this verse deals with fellowship with the Lord. A believer can indeed hate his brother. If he does, he is out of fellowship with the Lord.
However, there is a different, much more popular, way of understanding this verse. That theology says that if a person claims to be a believer but hates his fellow believer, it is a lie. That person cannot be a believer. A born again Christian may hate another believer for a short period of time but will repent of that sin if he is really saved.
I am an alumnus of an Evangelical seminary that promotes such a theology. It is Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, and it recently experienced a moment when its theology confronted reality. In the past, this institution had a long history of supporting slavery. In an open letter, the current president of the seminary, Dr. Albert Mohler, acknowledged that history. He confessed the sins of the institution in the past. He said that this school “expressly defended and even praised [slavery] as divinely ordained.” The president went on to say that all the founders of the school owned slaves and taught the inferiority of the black race. They passed this legacy down, and for many decades the school advocated for white rule and white supremacy, and called for the segregation of their institution and society at large.
Black Christians could not come to their school. Churches were segregated. Blacks were inferior. These teachings were promoted by the men who founded their school.
The president said that these men also taught that “repentance” is an “evangelical grace” and “is essential to the gospel.” However, these men never repented of their hatred towards black believers. In fact, they passed their legacy of hate on to the next generation.
Mohler then admitted that this leads to a hard question. The answer to that question is “not easy.” How could the school’s founders, those who had passionately defended Biblical truth and the gospel of Jesus Christ, also own slaves because of their racist ideology? After all, these men have buildings on campus named after them. For over 150 years they have been called great men of God by the institution. Their portraits hang in places of honor at the school. Their writings have been studied by generations of Evangelical leaders in order to gain a greater understanding of the Scriptures.
While Mohler’s honesty is to be commended, there is even a more basic question. These men hated an entire race of people. At least some of these people were believers in Jesus Christ. They destroyed the unity of churches. They wreaked havoc in families. They denied black preachers a chance to study theology in their institution. They even taught the righteousness of such actions and supported their hateful views with the Bible. In addition, they never took advantage of the “evangelical grace of repentance.” This was not a hate that lasted for a little while. It lasted their whole lives and even was passed down to the men they discipled.
So, let’s ask the more basic question. Were these men born again Christians? How about all those who followed in their footsteps, who lived the same way, for over 100 years? This would include the parents and grandparents of many present day teachers at the seminary.
Obviously, I don’t know. If these had ever believed in the free gift of eternal life by faith apart from works, then they were born again. This is true regardless of their views on slavery and hatred towards others, including other believers. My Free Grace theology teaches that believers may unfortunately hate other believers. They can do it for a lifetime and even pass that hatred on to others. There will be many believers in the kingdom who lived like that. I would not be surprised at all to see these men in the kingdom. That is my Free Grace theology. Eternal life is a free gift that can never be lost, regardless of how a believer lives. That is my theology, and I gladly own it.
But what about the popular theology that says 1 John 3:15 does not allow that? This theology says that hateful people, like the founders of Southern Seminary, are not believers at all. That leads to a number of questions. Should unbelievers be our theological heroes? Should Christian institutions honor them? Should we use the theological writings of unbelievers to instruct Christian pastors today? I would think that the answer to these questions would all be “no.” That answer would be consistent with such a theology. If that is their theology, they need to own it as well.
Timothy Grady
Ah , the fruit of the Test Of Life view .
Where would this end , logically? Ought they not repent of 100% of all their ancestors sins ?
Further , Mohler et al need to explain why , on Calvinism , there would be any sin to repent of if “all things whatsoever that come to pass” are ordained by God .
Leo Z
Thank you Pastor Ken for once again showing that this “popular” theology lacks what it purportedly represents, the amazing free grace of God.
Praying for you and GES!
Rick Deacon
Thank God for this ministry and others of Free Grace Theology. Amazing Grace saved a wrench like me! Amazing!
Tim Amoroso
He that believes in Jesus has Eternal Life. It not based on how we live. We all mess up in the we live. We cannot screw up Eternal Life if we believe in Jesus to give it to us. If we could screw it up, no one would have. So, I also would not be surprised if I meet some of these men in the Kingdom. They didn’t live with wisdom if they hated people for no reason. That is not how God wants his children to behave. So, I will also not be surprised if they have no rewards as well.
Brady
I question the statement,
“The president said that these men also taught that “repentance” is an “evangelical grace” and “is essential to the gospel.” However, these men never repented of their hatred towards black believers. In fact, they passed their legacy of hate on to the next generation.” and what Southen Baptist taught, that of “repentance” as stated above. But, we of “free grace” know no one is saved by such beliefs(repentance) with John 3:16. Soooo, my QUESTION or thought, who-who belongs to Southen Baptist actually does NOT believe what they teach or why would they even be Southen Baptist or even be allowed to of that Church??? Few I would say/guess. Sooo, if they have “never” only believed John 3:16 then we know most Southern Baptist are hell bound.
Rod Norville
If you want to know what will happen to these bad shepherds and those who mistreated others, read Ezekiel 34. Note the accountability of the shepherds. Then note how the Lord will gather His scattered flock and judge the stronger for their treatment of the weaker. Verses 17, 20-22 (NKJ) read: “And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I shall judge between sheep and sheep, between rams and goats. . . . “Because you have pushed with side and shoulder, butted all the weak ones with your horns, and scattered them abroad, “therefore I will save My flock, and they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep.” Now read Mat 25:31-46. Note that the criterion for the separation of the flock for judgment is how each group treated the least among them. It is their works that are in view. Verses 41 and 46 in Young’s Literal Translation captures the meaning a little better than most: “Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers; . . . “And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.” Unless our works really determine our eternal destiny, we may have to reconsider what God is doing with the “Lake of Fire” (Rev 20:14-15). Could Isa 6:1-7 provide a clue?
Alvin
Matthew 25:31-46 is looking at the end of the tribulation the sheep, and the goats are all Gentiles (the nations). The sheep are the Gentile believers who helped the Jews during this difficult time. Only the Gentile believers who were faithful during this time lived to the end of the tribulation, and they will inherit the Kingdom. Bob and Zane covered Matthew 25:31-46 in the Booklet “Tough Texts” Page 87.
It’s not talking about eternal salvation, or the Great White Throne (which happens a thousand years later).
Zane: Now this Judgment is not the final judgment. That’s important to keep in mind because, this is what we might call a preliminary hearing, or an arraignment, where the judge determines whether there is sufficient evidence to hold the person over for trial.
Timothy Grady
Thanks Rod Norville .
Perhaps you can explain your view of justification , in light of Ephesians 2:8-9 ?
Leo Z
Rod, if you are saying that works (or lack thereof) determine people’s eternal destiny in Revelation 20:11-15, then you are sadly mistaken. The reference to the dead (unbelievers) being judged by their works in the Great White Throne judgment of this Revelation passage does speak to people being condemned to the Lake of Fire because of their works. It is to show that these people who relied on their works for their eternal salvation were wrong in their assumption (c.f. Matthew 7:21-23). Just think about the huge number of people then and now who have relied and are relying on their works to gain eternal salvation. Jesus at this judgment is just confirming an already forgone conclusion that their works does not determine their eternal destiny as they will claim then. The reason people are sent to the Lake of Fire is because their names are not in the Book of Life as they have not believed in Jesus, the Christ for life everlasting which is the only condition for eternal salvation.
Alvin
By honoring these men who they know didn’t repent of their evil deeds is to take part in those evil deeds. To know to do right and not to do it is sin. If they stand by what they believe they would remove these men from being honored. You would think that any black man going to their institution that knows the history of those being honored in their hall ways is inconsistent with their own teachings, and beliefs. Hopefully the Southern Baptist see this inconsistency not only in practice but in their teaching, and turn to the truth bringing them into not only harmony with God, but faith in Jesus Christ for His gift of eternal life. Without any reference to sin, which is ONLY then good news~! The good news is that Jesus as God’s Lamb took away the sin of the world, and that is why everyone is free to take the living water without any cost~! Whoever desires let him take the water of life freely:-)
(1 John 3:15; James 4:16-17; Acts 20:21; John 1:29; 2 Cor 5:19; Isa 55:1; John 4:10; Rev 22:17)
marilyn
Satan must be so pleased with you. Your “theology” does not bring the unity God speaks of, but rather the grieving of the Holy Spirit and throwing stones at brothers and sisters. Unity in the Body Ephesians 4
…2with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, 3and with diligence to preserve the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called;…Colossians 3:14
And over all these virtues put on love, which is the bond of perfect unity.
Timothy Grady
Hello Marilyn .
Can you help us to understand better whom you’re referring to , and what it is that we ought to be united on ?
Thanks much .
marilyn m gleeson
Yes I can Timothy. Only God can save. I am a born again believer filled with the Holy Spirit. You most likely are also. I do not attend your church, nor you mine. Jesus Christ is the same forever. He worked in those before us just as He works in us. We are all one in Christ. Male, female, black, white, etc.. Sin is in the world, we all need to deal with it God’s way. Black men are just as “off” as whites. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc., etc.. Dr. Martin Luther King was a man of peace because he belonged to God, yet he was not faithful to his wife. We are not responsible for another man’s sin, it is up to us to bring the peace of God and unity in our own sphere of influence.
Leo Z
Marilyn, of course only God saves. I don’t think anyone here is making the call on who is saved and not. It’s pointing out that based on their own theology, these SBTS greats who lived out their hatred for another race (which includes many believers) is by THEIR OWN STANDARDS to be deemed unsaved or in the least, their salvation is suspect.
No one is also saying that we are responsible for the sins of others. Not sure of what you mean by “responsible”, but if you mean “none of our business”, then I disagree. If we see a doctrinal assertion to be biblically askewed, we do have a responsibility to point it out and question it.
Yes sin is in the world and believers sadly dabble in it. Granted this gross sin was in the past but that legacy lives on in the halls and buildings of that institution called SBTS. It is commendable that Dr. Mohler acknowledges this grave error in SBTS’ past. However, is it right to continue to give these men honor despite of what they did to their graves and passed on to another generation, all for the sake of unity? That is the other question.
On another note, unfortunately, that is the state of a church made of imperfect people. Thank God it has a perfect founder and head!
Timothy Grady
I appreciate your thoughts Marilyn , Alvin , and Leo.
The Bible is clear that God judges the outsiders . Unbelievers are not held to scriptural standards with respect to in-house discipline (1Cor.5&6;Matt.18 etc.) .
The heart of the issue is : only those who believe in Jesus for eternal life are a ’brother’ or ‘sister’ in the Body of Christ .
Unity can only be established on that foundation of that truth – never at its expense .
Alvin
Amen Timothy~!
Steve Thurman
Ken, you written many excellent articles for GES, but in my opinion this is your most powerful to date. You have come face to face with a genuine hypocrisy, but have confronted it with the Word of God, shown its weaknesses, written clearly and logically and respectfully, and yet without meanness. Well done.
Alvin
The KEY to understanding these verses is CONTEXT: Acts 20:29; Gal 5:12; Matt 23:33; Col 3:14.
Jay
And didn’t Martin Luther hate Jews?
Leo Z
To not point out error and sin is the most unloving thing a believer can do. Of course the rebuke and reproof is to be done in the spirit of love. To put unity as a primary concern over God’s truth and glossing over error, and calling it a loving act, is just as big a sin as the sin in question itself. Believers are exhorted to love but are also called to shun evil and cling to what is good. To call out and point out sin amongst one another is part of this command and calling.
marilyn m gleeson
Thank you for allowing this conversation. You cannot know another’s heart. If the founders you are slandering because of reviewing something man decided to review to placate today’s “BLM”; “White Privilege” and other labels from today’s movements, let it be known, you too will be judged by a Holy God. I am a woman that has faith in God and what His word (unblemished by today’s extreme bias) is worthy to apply to my life trusting He is faithful. I read some of the classics (Augustine, Luther, etc.) that some of you like to judge their less than perfect lives and would rather spend hours with them and hearing of their relationship with God then to spend minutes debating how far off they are because they were human. If God chose to make me submissive to men, then my direct line to Him is prayer. Some men were less kind to their women folk than others. They are all gone now, why would I want an investigation? They are already before the ONLY judge that matters. Dr. Mohler’s report could be summed up in his last 2 paragraphs.
marilyn m gleeson
1 Cor. 7:20 Let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called. 21 Were you called while a slave? Do not be concerned about it; but if you can be made free, rather use it. 22 For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord’s freedman. Likewise he who is called while free is Christ’s slave. 23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. 24 Brethren, let each one remain with God in that state in which he was called.” These people were not racist or hate their slaves! Although some may have. Those that believe that God is Sovereign accept their position. The Israelites in Egypt, they give their own lives to God and cry out to Him. As Dr. Mohler related, dead men can’t change.
Alvin
Marilyn, what your not understanding is that no one here is condemning these men. And why is that~? It’s because of our “Free Grace,” belief. We know that a man’s sin is not what sends him to the Lake of Fire. It’s what these men chose to believe a faith works salvation. A person only gets their name written in the Book of Life by faith alone in Christ alone. So, we know if those men ever believed that then they are saved no matter what their works were.
Our point is this “you can’t have your cake and eat it too~!” That is If you want to be consistent with your own belief you can’t make unbelievers according to your own standards hero’s~! When you do that, that is a contradiction. That is the point being made.
marilyn m gleeson
Alvin, you are most confusing. “you can’t make unbelievers according to your own standards hero’s!” WHAT in the world does THAT mean? Did you read Dr. Mohler’s entire report? Who are you people? If you belong to God your eyes have been opened by HIM!!! You did nothing. When you keep pushing your motto of “Free Grace” you simply say you are so much more enlightened than those who do not understand you. You simply make your own theology that anyone who does not agree with you are haters and are not really saved!!! I am a trophy of God’s grace. I was bought by the blood of the Lamb. If you are too than we are one in Christ. NOT perfect, just allowing Him to work in us. These times are really close to the end and we all need to be about the Father’s business not the past imperfections of those who are long dead. God will judge the dead. We need to be His love to THIS lost and dying world. Let’s pray for one another.
Alvin
According to Dr. Albert Mohler the President of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary said that these men also taught that “repentance” is an “evangelical grace” and “is essential to the gospel.” However, these men never repented of their hatred towards black believers. In fact, they passed their legacy of hate on to the next generation.
(SBTS quote)
Perseverance of the Saints
Those whom God hath accepted in the Beloved, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere to the end
That is the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary statement on perseverance of the saints. By their statement, and from what their President stated about these men not repenting shows that they fell short of their own beliefs. Which
according to “their beliefs” would make these men not saved.
So, how could they honor these men when they failed to reach their own statement on perseverance of the saints~?
Alvin
Marilyn, the price for sin was paid for every person. Jesus is the Lamb of God that took away the sin of the world, but that doesn’t make them saved. A person can believe that and still think they must persevere in good works until the end like this seminary teaches.
Just as Jesus asked the Woman at the Well for a drink of water in which she would do all the work, and He would simply drink. He offered her living water which she would simply drink by faith and would spring up into eternal life. It must be taken as a gift by faith alone. Anyone believing Jesus in a simple verse like John 3:16 knows they have eternal life and shall never perish. If they don’t know that they are yet to believe Him. Works have nothing to do with it either before or after.
But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness (Romans 4:5).
And believing is simply being persuaded what Jesus promises is true.
As Abraham shows: and being fully convinced that what He had promised that He was also able to perform.
And therefore it was accounted to him for righteousness. (Romans 4:21-22)
Timothy Grady
Amen Alvin .
Marilyn , can you help us to understand what you think a person needs to believe , in order to be born again ?
Thanks so much .
marilyn m gleeson
Thanks for the opportunity Timothy. You are preaching to the choir Alvin, I am already saved so do not need the gospel message explained to your understanding. God gave us His word so there would not be any confusion, for He tells us He is not a God of confusion. All of this back and forth and now I get it, you are simply Calvin haters. I will have to submit two answers as your word limitation does not allow me to do this in one. First, we are not “saved” by one verse here or there. The gospel message is just that, a message. Our faith should be in the One who died for us. God tells us that He will supply the sacrifice in His Son. First it must be revealed to us that we are against Him, followed by the way of redemption is through repentance. You cannot have a Savior if your eyes have not been opened that you need one. Once that happens and you receive in faith that this is true because the Holy Spirit has supernaturally shown you, you are a New Creation, a child of God. If you think you can save yourself by making the correct choice without His revelation knowledge, you are sadly mistaken. That is why we CAN believe, because it is His Holy Spirit.
Alvin
Your wrong on that one Marilyn, I don’t hate anyone not even my enemies. I know all they need is the Lord, and He is the Only One who can make all the difference. I’ve had men beat me up bad, he drop kicked me in the chin from behind, and bit into my shoulder till it was bloody, try to pull out my eye ball till I couldn’t hardly see. That was before I turned back to the Lord. I gave the salvation message to the man who did that to me. I don’t hold grudges or try to get even with people, I want what’s best for them, and I know everyone needs the Lord. And I know the only way I can be that way is because of the love of God in me working.
I believe that 5 point Calvinism attacks the very character of God, and contradicts child like verses as John 3:16. I know that God loves everyone, and desires all men to be saved. I believe that the Gospel of John is the only Book in the Bible that states it is written for the purpose that the unbeliever may have life (John 20:30-31). Repentance is to be preached (meaning to proclaim aloud kerusso). The Gospel of John is completely silent concerning repentance. If repentance was a condition for eternal life, then it wouldn’t be a gift that can be taken freely, as the woman in John 4 was offered. She only needed to know two things who Jesus was and what the gift of God was. It is offered again to be taken freely even if you desire in Revelation 22:17.
Alvin
Marilyn, just to give you a little history on me. My Dad was a Missionary Baptist preacher. My Grandmother was the only mother I ever knew, she was a Southern Baptist until her husband was kicked out for smoking out front of the Church. My one uncle and my brother were both 5 point Calvinist preachers. My uncle has since died, and my brother is now a 4 point Calvinist preacher. He stopped believing the 5th point perseverance of the saints. My brother who I love dearly helped raise me after our Mom died at the foot of our bed of gas affixation. My Dad and an elder of the church had put in the gas stove which leaked. My Dad was never the same after this.
From what I understand my grandmothers family had slaves, which I believe some wanted to stay with them.
I looked at all your verses. Just a note on your Gen 47 they willingly became slaves to survive. Also most of your verses are written to believers who already have everlasting life. I believe you are mixing the gift of eternal life with discipleship which costs. Jesus said concerning discipleship you are to count the cost before undertaking (Luke 14:28). Jesus was very clear when He offered the gift of eternal life which could be taken freely with the cost of discipleship which cost everything (lose your life to gain it).
marilyn m gleeson
Part 2. Acts 16:30-32; 11:14; 16:15. Mark 16:16; Romans 10:9-13; all of Romans four, five and six. All of 1 John 2. Our belief is in what God has told us is true. “But how are they to call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in Him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent?” “Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. (2 Cor 13:5-8 for context). Romans14:4Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. As far as founders and slaves: Read Genesis chapter 47 to see hoe our forefather Joseph made the Egyptians slaves to feed themselves during the famine. Are we not to believe God because of Joseph’s actions? God forbid!
Timothy Grady
Thanks Marilyn .
Would you agree that all who believe in Jesus for His guarantee of eternal life (John 3:16,5:24,6:47,11:24-27) , are given unending life ?
Would it also be true that whoever does not believe that , is not saved ?
Appreciate your thoughts .
marilyn m gleeson
Thanks Timothy. I believe that salvation is the biggest miracle of God, as it is supernatural. First we must be drawn to Him by the Father, then our eyes are opened to our own sinful condition, then when we see that and cry out, “what must I do?!” our Savior is revealed. We are then sealed with the Holy Spirit, we are a New Creation, we are His seed, we now have eternal life. I have been crucified with Christ and it is no longer I who live but Christ lives in me!!!! Gal 2:19-21 for context. How can anyone take that lightly thinking we just go around doing the “best we can”? We have the mind of Christ, His compassion, His Love to bring to others. What we do is His fruit in our lives, not our works. What a wonderful thing to walk by the Spirit!!!! Are we human? Yes. However, if we do sin, we have an Advocate. Our faith must be in the being of Jesus Christ. Luke 9:48-50 Please pray with me that the message go forth from Him and not us. Thank you Timothy.
Timothy Grady
Appreciate that Marilyn .
If you were to be involved in a serious car accident , and then get addicted on pain meds ; then an alcoholic ; and finally take your life – where would you go upon death ?
marilyn m gleeson
Thank you for the questions Timothy. I did almost die from an infection that I contracted after a hip surgery and did like the pain pills a bit too much. However, not wanting to give them up I cried out to God and I believe I was delivered. He also had delivered me from cigarettes and alcohol when I was much younger. God is faithful. If we truly belong to Him, He is certainly able to save to the uttermost. Hebrews 7:24But because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore He is able to save completely those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede for them. 26Such a high priest truly befits us—One who is holy, innocent, undefiled, set apart from sinners, and exalted above the heavens.… My faith is in Him, He is able to keep me.
marilyn m gleeson
Also Timothy, in Ephesians 5:27 we are told that Christ will come for His Bride (the Church, bought with His blood) and will present her to Himself without spot or blemish. Do you really think that He is unable to wash and clean us in sanctification that we might be a witness to His power and glory as we live down here? that we are the same the day before we are “saved” as the day after? We only change when we die?!!! 2 Cor. 11:2 Paul tells us that we are betrothed as a pure virgin. Rev. 19:7-9 and see what part you play and which part He plays in all of this. I am not working my way to salvation!!!! Only He is able. Would like to know what you think.
Alvin
Part 1
We can learn much from the Parable of “The Sower and the Seed.”
The first one the seed is devoured before they can believe and be saved (Matt 13:4,19; Mark 3:15; Luke 8:12).
The last three notice the seed springs up, that is there is life (Matt 13:5,7,8). They are not like the first seed which was snatched away before they could believe and be saved (Luke 8:12).
Notice the third seed that sprang up was choked by the weeds, and their fruit didn’t come to maturity (Matt 13:7; Luke 8:14).
Then the last seed it says the seed fell on good ground, that is their soil was well prepared they understood (Matt 13:8,23). I believe that means they didn’t just understand Jesus promise of eternal life, but they understood the way of life. As Matt 11:28-30 they didn’t just come to Jesus, but they took His yoke. This would be Jesus desire for every believer, not only to be saved but come to the knowledge of the truth as 1 Tim 2:4 states: For this is good and acceptable in sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved AND to come to the knowledge of the truth.
marilyn m gleeson
Thanks Alvin. Part 1 Who is responsible for the condition of our soil? Most of your interpretations and reasonings seem to be what is spoken of as “straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. Although I am sure you study the word. Our testimony is an eyewitness of what Jesus did in our life. Then Jesus tells us that once this happens, “you will be witnesses.” We want to be confident in our own faith (either something happened or it did not), and then we want to take that love and go into all our own surroundings to bring the gospel message to free others that they might see His love for them. Jesus saves! To take some verses out of context and hang the entire message on that is what Jesus says John 5:39You pore over the Scriptures because you presume that by them you possess eternal life. These are the very words that testify about Me, 40yet you refuse to come to Me to have life.… Not the belief that He simply exists, for His word tells us even the demons believe. Our eyes must be supernaturally opened to His truth, that we might believe. If we belong to Him we will be like Him, as we are His seed.
Alvin
Each individual is responsible to seek God, and to not suppress the truth they have been given. It’s true that no one seeks God left to themselves, but God does not leave them to themselves (John 12:32; Acts 17:26-28; Romans 1:18-20; Ps 19:1-6; Isa 65:1). Just as Timothy had a godly mother and grandmother which they poured truth into his life, others didn’t have that. So the soil was better prepared in some lives more than others. But every individual has been given light, and so are without excuse. They either seek God or suppress the truth.
Alvin
John 5:38-40. The problem they didn’t believe Jesus, they were going about to establish their own righteousness. Jesus said, YOU are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
The gift of eternal life must be taken freely to be by grace, it has nothing to do with your works before or after. Which I don’t believe you understand, that is why you bring up the demons also believe. The salvation James is talking about must have works. That salvation is the saving of your life by following Christ in discipleship. James does not contradict Jesus or Paul who clearly states that it’s with out works.
But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness. (Romans 4:5)
Alvin
Part 2
Remember in Matthew Jesus told His disciples to ONLY go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel preaching the Kingdom (Matt 10:5-7). They were being called to a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. And it was only after John was thrown in prison, that Jesus Himself started to preach that message (Matt 4:12,17; John 3:24). The Woman at the Well was not called by Jesus to a baptism of repentance, as no one was in the Gospel of John. They could simply come to Jesus for His gift of life.
Do we have examples of these different types of believers? John said they believed: (John 2:23-24; 3:1-2; 8:30-32; 12:42; 1 Cor 3:11-15 bema salvation).
marilyn m gleeson
BTW Alvin, I am a member of a Baptist church (IFB). I do not believe in their hatred of Calvinists and believe that Calvinists are our brothers and sisters and saved. This back-biting does nothing to win the lost. To slander good men from 160 years ago without knowing them is not good and deserves to be left alone. We are all human and make many mistakes. The word is given to us that we might preach the good news (Isaiah 61:1-3) to a lost and dying world, that they might see the love of God for them and repent and turn to Him and worship and serve Him because He first loved us. Matthew 18 was given us I n how to confront ungodly heart behavior, not wait 160 years and then slander. Dr. Mohler’s last two paragraphs were right on. Acknowledge that what some men’s actions are not right but move on in the love of God TODAY. 2 Peter 3:9
Alvin
Marilyn, it’s Calvinism’s belief of “perseverance of the saints” which is judging people whether they are saved.
marilyn m gleeson
Alvin, Ephesians 1:13-14. For context chapter 1-3. “Calvinism’s belief” is something you and other men have decided to rip apart. Perseverance of the saints Is the Scripture above in Ephesians 1. Romans 12:3″For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.” Please preach the Good News rather than dispute the love and intent of God.
Alvin
Marilyn, what you call Good News is not good news at all because your works are needed to prove your faith is real. And then did you love the brethren enough, or did you repent enough~???
marilyn m gleeson
Alvin, I am so sorry that your religious legalistic thinking keeps you bound. Jesus stood and read from the scroll: “The Spirit of the LORD GOD is upon Me, because the LORD has anointed Me to bring the Good News to the poor, he has sent Me to heal the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of prison doors to those who are bound.”(Isaiah 61) He wants your eyes fixed on Him so you can be free from judging others and creating your own kingdom of those whom you deem acceptable. When you read His Word, ask Him to show you and bring life into your dead bones. Those that belong to Him begin to become like Him. Less of us, more of Him. What you call “works” is His fruit! This can only come from abiding in Him and His Word in you. This is beginning to take too much of my time Alvin. Let’s pray for each other.
Alvin
Marilyn, that one verse where Paul said that he could be disqualified SHOULD have shown you that what you have believed is false. But your not OPEN to God’s word. I’ll pray that God will open your heart to the truth before it’s to late.
Alvin
Marilyn what you don’t understand is that Paul himself didn’t even know that he would persevere in good works all the way to the end of his life. He knew he could be disqualified.
But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified (1 Corinthians 9:27).
But Paul knew that: If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself. (2 Timothy 2:13)
That is Paul believed the Good News Therefore having assurance of His eternal destiny the moment he believed~! Why because he knew it was a gift without works of any kind connected.
Timothy Grady
Thanks again Marilyn .
Now let’s suppose that you were to die as a bitter atheist , as that drug addiction/alcoholism continued for several years .
Where would you go after suicide on that scenario ?
Appreciate your time.
marilyn m gleeson
Timothy, are you asking if I were an unbeliever and died still unbelieving? If so, I would go to hell. As John 3:18-21. The drug addiction and alcoholism have nothing to do with unbelieving.
Timothy Grady
Thanks Marilyn .
I agree that drug addiction/alcoholism has zero to do with one’s
eternal abode .
Very simply , I’m asking whether Marilyn would go to be with Jesus forever if she died as a bitter atheist , and ended her life after several years of anguish ?
Sorry if it is not clearly stated .
marilyn m gleeson
Timothy, I do not know why you are using my name, as that too is as clear as mud, as I have already stated that I am saved. Would a bitter atheist who ended their life after years of anguish would be with Jesus, the answer in the word of God is no. Only Universalist believe that all people will go to be with Jesus because He died for all, Arminians believe that if Christ died for some who will never be saved, then His death fails to accomplish its purpose (unlimited salvation). Calvinisim believes that Christ died for all, that anyone may come, however those that do not, the wrath of God remains on them. I do not believe that God sent His Son to die for all regardless of whether they acknowledge His grace or not. What in the world would be the point of that? The Bible tells us that His Church has been bought by His blood. We are to separate from the world. We do not belong to the world. Yet what some want us to believe is that none of this matters, we will all go to be with Him when this is over. We just had to hang out on earth as an amusement and then we go on to be with him. That is absurd!!!!!
Timothy Grady
Thanks Marilyn .
It appears that you are not certain that you will persevere until death .
Are you certain that you are one of the ‘elect’ ?
marilyn m gleeson
Timothy, I am so sad that this blog spends it’s resource trying to convince people that Jesus cannot save to the uttermost. I am certain that I belong to God because of Jesus and He is able to keep me until I am with Him. Timothy, I urge you to put your faith in Jesus Christ and what He has done for you, receive strength and encouragement from His Word instead of using it to try to bring doubt to others. Hebrews 6:A Call to Maturity
1Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith in God, 2instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.…
marilyn m gleeson
Timothy, please help me see what you are interpreting from the Scriptures. Rev. 2:11He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’ Rev. 22:8But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” And myriad of Scripture on those who will be judged and sent to the Lake of Fire. John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” Rev. 22:17The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Let the one who hears say, “Come!” And let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely. (this is Jesus dying for all, meaning that because of that, anyone may come. Not every one does.)
Timothy Grady
Marilyn I love you .
I am praying for you.
I’ll be happy to address your many points one at a time .
First , can we agree that only those who believe in Jesus FOR eternal life (John 3:16,5:24,6:47,11:24-27) and never look to their behavior , fruit , repentance , obedience (in a word – works); to either confirm their salvation/’election’ , or deny it , are in fact born again ?
Blessings in truth .
marilyn m gleeson
Thank you Timothy. John 17 Jesus tells us He has prayed that we might all be one. Yes, we can agree with all that you wrote. We are told in 2 Peter 1:2-4 that through His power we have been given everything we need to live godly lives. Also, please read the book of Colossians for context on the New Creation and instructions. Why stay spinning our wheels in the mud? Let us go on to maturity knowing that we belong to Him and offer ourselves as His cleansed vessels. We were not purchased to sit on the side of the road in the dust announcing, “I have eternal life!” Jesus tells us to “GO!” And He will be with us always. Thank you for your prayers Timothy. I am praying for you also.
Timothy Grady
Thanks much .
Continuing prayers and blessings in truth .