Recently I ran across a quote by a Calvinist. He said that he was sure he was born again and eternally secure “without a doubt.” He went on to say that he was sure he would persevere, going so far as to say that even if he tried to walk in rebellion against Christ, he would be unable to do so because God guarantees to keep him walking with Christ.
Is that correct? Can we be sure that we will persevere in faith and good works?
The Bible makes it clear that we cannot be sure we will persevere in faith or good works. The Apostle Paul was not sure he would persevere (1 Cor 9:27). If he couldn’t be sure, then we can’t be either.
There are scores of warnings in the NT against falling away (see, for example, Matt 24:45-51; 25:1-13; 14-30; Luke 19:16-26; 2 Tim 2:12; 4:10; 2 Pet 3:17; 1 John 2:28; 4:17-19; Rev 2:25-26; 3:11). These are warning against something that could happen to us.
I have debated multiple Calvinists (and one Arminian) who have said that they were not sure they would persevere.
I have only met one person who told me he was sure he would persevere. He was an Arminian Charismatic, one who believed that everlasting life could be lost. But he told me that God told him personally he would not fall away. God gave him a special promise that he would persevere and keep his salvation.
I remember Dr. James Dobson, an Arminian, talking about his Arminian father who nearly died during a medical emergency. He ended up living another year or so. But Dr. Dobson reported on the radio that God appeared to his father while he was recovering and told him that he would definitely persevere. Dr. Dobson pointed out how comforting it was for his father to know he was secure in his salvation.
I agree, it is comforting to know that we are secure in Christ and cannot lose our salvation. But the good news is that we do not need any other special revelation than that which we already have in the Bible in order to know that we are secure in our salvation. Jesus promised, “He who lives and believes in Me will never die” (John 11:26). I believe in Him. I know I will never die spiritually. Whether I persevere or not, I am saved once and for all. So are you if you believe His promise of life.
Perseverance is commanded in the Bible. But it is not guaranteed. Christians can fail to persevere. However, if we do fail to persevere, we remain eternally secure (John 11:26; 2 Tim 2:12). What we lose if we do not persevere is God’s blessings in this life and the eternal rewards that we could have received at the Judgment Seat of Christ, including especially His approval and the right to rule with Him in the life to come.
So, can we be sure that we will persevere? No. We can’t. But we can be sure that we have everlasting life that can never be lost. And that assurance can produce in us such a profound sense of gratitude that our walk with Christ will continue as long as we retain our gratitude and our love for our Savior, Lord, and Judge.
Leo Z
Amen, Pastor Bob. Scripture is clear about the subject of eternal security. As the lines in the hymn goes…”just to take Him at His word, just to rest upon His promise, just to know “thus saith The Lord”. I’m secure in Him because it’s “all” about Him!
He said, whosoever believes in Him and will have life “ever-lasting” and He keeps His promises. I can and may fail but He can’t and does not!
In continued prayers for you and GES.
Alvin
Bob, you have one right on your blog here that is sure he will persevere, so he doesn’t believe those Scriptures are for him.
Reformed
Christ does not say it ‘may flow’ out of his/her heart, He says it “will flow”. I take that to mean that sanctification (fruits of the Spirit) is unavoidable once the Spirit of God is inside the believer. Believers are fountains of living water. If they are not, they do not belong to Christ.
Assurance of salvation comes from the Spirit inside of the believer. Assurance is not something the believer convinces himself of. It is also a grace from God. I am assured I belong to Christ, without a doubt. I don’t think there is even a question of perseverance. I could try in my flesh to not follow Christ, but I will fail in that attempt, and the grace of Christ will complete my sanctification because He is the author and perfecter of my faith to begin with.
Reformed
Truly reformed Calvinists know that Christ is able to keep them from falling away from the faith. They rely entirely on God, not on their free will, for sanctification. When I have more time I will give you Bible verses that clearly show Christ is the one who keeps us in the faith, it is not our free will that we depend on, although the free will is definitely persuaded to do His will.
Alvin
That’s ok Reformed I’ll help you by giving you a verse to start with:
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that YOU do not do the things YOU WISH.
Brady
excellent!!! Keep it up!!!! ” All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [c]instruction in righteousness”…, 2 Tim. 3:16.
Alvin
Is what Reformed said true about once the Spirit is inside of you the fruits of the Spirit will flow that it’s unavoidable, and that if it doesn’t you don’t belong to Christ~?
First we will see that what he is saying is not true, but then we will look at the potential that it speaks about.
In John 4:13-14 this is the water that Jesus was offering the Woman at the Well right then: “ but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water SPRINGING UP into everlasting life.” (Emphasis mine)
This is eternal security, and is a fountain of water, with faith springs up into everlasting life.
If we go to the Parable of the sower we see that the ones who believed the seed SPRANG UP in the second, third and fourth one. We are told that the third seed becomes unfruitful (Matt 13:22 also see verses 3-9,19-23). This proves that what Reformed said was false, it’s not guaranteed.
Alvin
But, what is the potential once one had the Holy Spirit (John 7:37-39 out of his heart will flow rivers of living water). When the believer receives the Holy Spirit he has been brought into UNION with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Ephesians 2:4-6). And we can see the potential in the fourth soil which bears much fruit (Matt 13:8,23). But, the believer must commit himself to Christ to experience this before He will commit Himself to them (John 2:23,24).
Alvin
As you have stated Bob, even Paul knew he could be a disqualified~!
But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, I myself should become disqualified. 1 Cor 9:27
Alvin
Bob, you know as well as I do because we are both 66 and have been athletes for years, and we know how much training goes into being an athlete and it’s not automatic but takes discipline. We’re not so naive to believe if we don’t do the work, and we try to run a race we might not finish.
Bob Wilkin
Well, I’m a struggling geezer jock. In my/our age group (65-69) I’m okay in race walking, a sport
few ever try. Yet I don’t run anymore. I don’t even try 100 meters. But, Alvin, you are right about the training. I race walk about 20 miles a week, swim about 1200 yards a week, and bike around 9 miles a week. None of it fast. If the Lord tarries and I live to be 90 and can still compete, I may be getting a lot of gold medals. But I know that this could all stop in the future, not only because of death or ill health, but also because of complacency, aches and pains, etc. Perseverance is not guaranteed in sports or in the Christian faith.
Brady
Great analogies!!!! But will they GRASP that, willingly???
Alvin
Bob, I’m a 1970 Marine, so that’s how long I have been training. I took a job when I was 51 that required carrying heavy equipment and running. Which is not a good idea to do for longevity. The knees started to go at 60, since then I have become a TRIKKER that is a full body motion to propel the Trikke. No impact, I dance to the music on my Trikke propelling it with motion to the music. If I don’t fall off, I’m good to go:-)
David Wyatt
May i simply say thank you for your service Bro. Alvin? Forgive me for straying of-topic Dr. Bob!
Brady
I too have been WORKING OUT/exercising since I was 14 and KNOW it takes serious FREE WILL “effort” to keep on keeping on. I turned 65 in October. But I have been at some more practical and serious than that since I was 6-7 years old and that IS believing and defending John 3:16 by the Grace of God only.
Phil
I can understand Dr. Dobson’s enthusiasm and joy, for his father’s experience. I am happy for him. But here’s the problem: not everyone gets a personal visit from God. (Must be pretty exciting!!) Let me ask then, what about the rest of the Christian community? Is there something wrong with the rest of us in that we are somehow unworthy of such an intervention? I certainly don’t think Dr. Dobson would hold this view. I think he is a very good man. But how are we to interpret the fact that we – the vast majority of us – have been excluded from this kind of event? Well, it’s a complicated world and it seems impossible to figure some things out, but I think it is much better to trust the written word which, as has been pointed out, is very clear about the requirement for receiving eternal life. That word is given equally to everyone and it can surely be trusted. We can have plenty of confidence in our salvation, visit or no visit.
Vince Deegan
Alvin, what does John 1:11-13 say about how to be born again? What does John 3:14-16 say about how to be born again? Right. It’s by faith in Jesus.
Now, were Jesus’ words in 3:14-16 spoken before the Cross? So, if people believed in Jesus at that time, did they not have everlasting life then and were they not born again then?
Furthermore, did Paul himself ever say that those, who believed in Jesus before knowing about the Cross, were actually not saved when they believed?
Brady
excellent!!!
Leo Z
What it comes down to in these discussions, is how some have replaced God’s Word (or giving it priority over Scripture) with man made theological constructs. This is clearly shown when Scripture is taken out of context and interpretations are forced into it to support a particular theological construct. Then again, one can say that each side can make that claim. Therein, never the twain shall meet. However, people have to make a choice. To be either traditionally and popularly theological or to be biblical. That is where the difference lies between Calvinists, Arminians, Free Grace proponents and whoever else. The bottom line is about who is more biblically sound and in line with Scripture’s true meaning in their theology. That is how I landed to be a Free Grace proponent. It is a simple choice but not so easy to carry out practically.
Leo Z
Learning God’s truth is a process for all to go through. Some learn and some don’t. For a long time I was on the other side of this discussion (a Calvinist in many ways) until in my spirit I decided to open my mind and study what the other side was teaching. It was a struggle at first. After all, emptying one’s mind of preconceived and presupposed notions that you have held and believed for decades is not an easy thing. Having a teachable spirit with a fresh and open mind to other perspectives is where it starts. God honored that desire and He opened my heart and mind to be taught by His Spirit with the call for some serious study time on my end. Learning the truths of Scripture is never static, it is a fluid process. Only God’s truths never change. The one indispensable key ingredient in all of learning is earnest prayer for God’s illumination. I pray that illumination for all, no matter which side they are on. I’ve long abandoned trying to change people’s views, only the Holy Spirit can do that but it starts with a receptive heart (mind). All I can do is deliver the message as clearly as I can in His power.
KennyMac
R.C. Sproul (Calvinist) said that he was not completely sure he was one of the “elect”. Sad don’t you think?
Leo Z
Sad indeed!
Reformed
John 10:26-28 “But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.” ——–please notice His sheep follow Him, not may or could, but they follow, no other option given. Don’t try to say sheep means only disciples because that is not the context of these verses. You are either His sheep or you’re not. If you are His you hear Him and follow Him. Your free will may get you lost at times, but Christ will come after you with the rod if necessary. Sanctification is a sure thing as Christ says here.
Alvin
Reformed notice, that verse says that Jesus sheep hear His voice, and Jesus knows them, and they follow Him, and He gives them eternal life, and they will never perish.
Your forcing your Calvinistic system on that verse. It doesn’t say He gives them eternal life, and they follow Him, but just the opposite they follow Him, and He gives them eternal life. That proves that following Him is not automatically done, or guaranteed~!
As far as never perishing that happens at the moment one passes from death into life (John 5:24).
Alvin
Reformed, you have already rejected the clear Scriptures that we have already given you, that proves that you are out of Balance like a washing machine:-)
Leo Z
Reformed, Paul is defending the doctrine of the resurrection in 1 Cor 15. Many were negating and doubting the fact of the resurrection. Read the rest of the chapter, it’s clear. Of course the death, burial and resurrection of Christ is a glorious and wondrous truth that everyone should look into and believe. Without it, eternal salvation would be a meaningless gift from God. It is the basis of eternal salvation, without it, no one is savable. His death and resurrection is part of the marvelous “gospel” (good news) about Jesus, The Christ, God’s Son. How does that make the FG message crossless? When the cross is preached and taught. I don’t get that assessment on your part.
There are many truths about Him which are the apologetics that should lead people to “believe in Him” for eternal life. Believing them, does not save anyone. Consider this thought many people believe the truth about Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection but are not saved (Romanists, JWs, LDS, faith + works proponents etc.) Why? because they do not believe in Him for “life”. (John 20:31) is clear. (John 3:16; 5:24; 6:47; Acts 16:30-31; Eph 2:8-9 tells us how one is saved (by believing in Jesus) and what the saving message is (believing in Him as the one who imparts and guarantees eternal life, John 11:25-27). The Father testifies to this and His testimony is truth (1 John 5:9-12) John in 1 John 5:1 affirms John 20:31.
Reformed
Alvin, if your sanctification depends on your free will, it will be your works not God’s. Sanctification does not depend on your free will to empower you to do His will. Rather, you depend entirely on Christ to even give you desire and understanding to do what it is that He assigned for you. The fruits of the Spirit are not your fruits, even though they come from your heart and your mouth and your doings. If you have no assurance of sanctification, you must be a miserable person because you live in constant fear that your flesh could cause you to hate Christ. That is a frightening state to be in. He is able to keep You from falling from the faith because He promised so. Jude 1:24 (KJV) “Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,”
Leo Z
A perfect example of what I was talking about in my previous post. Taking Scripture (John 10:26-28) out of context and forcing in an interpretation into it, to support a man made theological construct (this time, Calvinism). I saw way too many of these situations and esisegitical practice in my studies which led me to reconsider my theological perspectives and views. The FG journey has been and still is wondrously liberating. I thank God for giving me those learning “aha moments” and I thank Him for many FG people (which includes this blog author and many others in the GES family) who teaches and contend for His priceless truths.
Alvin
Apart from the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ no one could be saved~!
David Wyatt
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
KEN TAMASHIRO
Hi Pastor Bob,
A clear and obvious passage that comes to mind is: Hebrews 10:26-31 English Standard Version (ESV)
26 For if we go on sinning deliberately (Willfully Apostacizing) after receiving the knowledge of the truth,(about understanding Christ Sacrifice) there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, (from God the Father to the Apostate believer) and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. (Those who publically disgrace Jesus and saying He was not the Christ) 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
KEN TAMASHIRO
The bracket quotes are my insertions to expand on the context of the story
Tim_A
I like this article. Thanks for writing it, Sir.
Tim_A
Great article. I love it. Thanks for sharing it, Sir.
Reformed
Bob, you can be courteous enough not to erase my posts even if you disagree with my views on different Scriptures. It just goes to show that your motivation is to cause division in the body of Christ. Your motives are not coming out of love for Christ. As for the fact that Alvin teaches a crossless gospel with his woman at the well analogy, that is a fact well documented on this blog.
Pam
Reformed, you accuse Bob falsely. I am the one who has deleted various posts, and not just yours. I have a list of guidelines to follow. I am not obligated to allow false teaching to be pushed on this blog, for instance. Other comments get deleted for other reasons.
Bob Wilkin
Dear Reformed,
I’ve sent you several emails asking to tone down your language (in the comments that Pam let through, which is hundreds), but they all bounce back because you provided a bogus email address. I find that puzzling. Why provide a false email address? You also do not provide your name. You hide and make vitriolic comments. I doubt your Reformed church would allow anonymous visitors to call your pastor, elders, and church heretical, as you’ve said of us. I doubt your church would think what you are doing is honorable or Godly. If you are man or woman of integrity, you will cease commenting on our site. Why not find a site that agrees with you?
Alvin
The fact of the Woman at the Well Being Born Again with no knowledge of the cross just as Jesus disciples were is just that a fact.
But, apart from the cross Jesus couldn’t have given the living water that with faith would spring up into everlasting life.
Jesus took away the sin of the world on the cross, which you don’t believe. Which shows you don’t believe in the efficiency of the cross.
Just as the sins that were passed over in the OT, God had to show He was just in doing that. That is, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus (see Romans 3:25-26).
Alvin
If you read my own testimony here on this blog you would know it was all about the cross, “look and live” (John 3:14,15).
But, concerning the living water it hasn’t changed. It’s the message of life, that the one who simply believes in Jesus has everlasting life.
How one comes to believe that, each one is different concerning what they need to be convinced.
The cross is the normal way to show people they have a need to be saved, and how Jesus paid the price so that He can give them eternal life freely~!
That’s not a cross-less Gospel, one of my favorite verses to give is John 1:29 which you don’t believe.
I don’t believe anyone is going to believe in Jesus for eternal life who thinks He is still in the grave.
But, it’s still about the giving and receiving of a gift, that can be taken freely~!
David Wyatt
Amen again dear Bro! I’m trying to stop posting but these comments are blessing my li’l ol’ heart!
Cha
I love your message and I hope it is true. So many places in Scripture seem to teach the security of the believer such as John 11:26, but too many verses seem to say the opposite. I read and re-read the explanations you or Zane Hodges offer and I just can’t seem to make them always fit with the context given for the particular scriptures. I truly believe you both are honest, Christ-loving, blood-bought children of God, but I think the problem is with my background in a very legalistic religion. Here are just a few of the verses that are troubling: Luke 8:13, Heb 6:4-6, Matt 10:22, 1 Tim 4:16, James 2:14-26 (the list seems endless). Is there a good study Bible you recommend?
Alvin
CHA,
Luke 8:13 is verified by 2 Tim 2:13 If we are faithless He remains faithful. he can not deny Himself.
Heb 6:4-6 to renew them to repentance, is not the same as renewing them to salvation. Repentance is not a condition for eternal life, simply believing is. Repentance is never mentioned in John’s Gospel which is the only Book in the Bible written to the unbeliever that they may have life (John 20:31). This passage is about discipline.
Matt 10:22 this is talking about Jesus second coming which will be at the end of the seven year tribulation. Jesus did not know the day and hour, but only the Father did Matt 24:36. Which that chapter 24 has the same saying: But he who endures to the end shall be saved. Verse 22 of that chapter tells us what kind of salvation that is. Physical (no flesh would be saved), that is if they endured until the end of the tribulation they wouldn’t have to die, but would be changed and go into the 1000 year reign of Christ.
Alvin
1 Tim 4:16 is the saving of the life, and 1 Tim 2:15; 2 Tim 1:5; 3:14-15 the truth was handed down, so the saved would be delivered (saved).
James 2:14-26 Key word profit verses 14,16. This is a justification by works that is before men verse 23. I think the main key is in James 1:21 the implanted word which is able to save your soul (life). When we were born again by the word, that Seed had all we needed to live Godly in Christ Jesus. Just like our DNA everything in there. But as the next verse says, be doers of the word. It takes more than being born again to save your life, you must lose it (see John 12:25). If there are no works see 1 Cor 3:11-15).
That’s how I see it, if I’m wrong the Senior Geezer can straighten me out, I think he has me by a couple days.
Vince Deegan
Oh Alvin, please, please accept my apologies. At first, I thought you were addressing Bob about the issue of the Cross. Then, later, I realized you were probably addressing Reformed, and not Bob. So, again, I’m sorry, and please disregard my earlier comment to you.
Thank you.
Alvin
No problem Vince, I liked Phil’s comment also:-)
Vince Deegan
Cha, in addition to Alvin’s good advice, I can recommend excellent reading material in response to your question about reading materials.
First, there is the GES New Testament Commentary, where all the authors give answers regarding many difficult passages.
Plus, there are many books written by both Zane Hodges and Bob Wilkin that address very many tough passages. One of them is even called, “Tough Texts”. You can find all of these in the Book Store pages of the GES website, faithalone.org.
I hope these will help you to see how the actual contexts of those passages can alleviate most of your concerns.
Enjoy. And take care.
Vince Deegan
Phil,
Some great points. Thanks.
Tamra
Another book I recommend for Cha is The Reign of the Servant King by Joseph Dillow. It cleared up many of the muddy verses for me many years ago when I read it for the first time. I now have it so marked up from years of use I may have to buy another one. Needless to say, it was instrumental in me changing my doctrinal beliefs.