Transcript

ANNOUNCER: If grace is free, and leads to assurance that we have eternal life that can never be lost, then what is the motivation to walk in the light and to live in fellowship with God? Why not live like the devil, as some say will happen? Hello, friend. We’re glad you’re joining us today on Grace in Focus. This is the radio broadcast and podcast ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society. Our website is faithalone.org. Lots to learn about us; there are a number of things to interest you. We would especially like to invite you to our national annual conference, 2026, happening May 18th through the 21st. You can get all the details, all the information you need right there on our website, faithalone.org. Get signed up, we’d love to have you with us. 

And now, with today’s question and answer discussion, here’s Bob Wilkin, along with Ken Yates. 

KEN: Bob, we’re going to do a few episodes on our upcoming national conference. So why don’t you tell us a little bit about that national conference that we’re having up here in North Texas here in a few months? 

BOB: Yeah, it’s going to be in Denton at Camp Copass May 18th through 21. Our theme this year is going to be everlasting life and abundant life because the life that Jesus gives us is a life that’s capable of greater or lesser fulfillment, greater lesser experience in this life, of course. In the life to come, we’ll have that abundant life forever. Although that too will vary depending on what we do in this life, and that’ll be part of this conference. 

And so what we’re going to do in the next few radio shows is go through some of the messages which have been proposed for plenary messages, plenary meaning all. In other words, all the conferees will be together to hear these. And these are some common questions or issues related to both everlasting life and abundant life. 

KEN: And for those who’ve never been to one of the conferences, what Bob just mentioned, plenary, that’s when everybody’s together, but there’s also breakout sessions. I

BOB: t’s six or seven sessions where there’s three or four different messages going on at the same time. And the conferees pick which one they want to go to. Then after the conference, we make all the audio available. And we also videotape these and put those up on YouTube over the course of the next six months or so. 

KEN: So if you’ve never been to the conference, we would encourage you to look at that possibility. Come on out and be with us. It’s always a great time being with free grace people and we can go to these both plenary and the breakout sessions. So again, if you haven’t been, hope you come. 

Okay. So on our list here, one of the plenary titles is going to be “why not live like the devil?” And I’m sure that all of our listeners have heard that before, right? If we have eternal life that can never be lost, once saved, always saved, then why not live like the devil? 

BOB: Well, it’s not quite like that. As you know, you see Calvinists say they believe in once saved, always saved. But they don’t know if they have it. So if you say everlasting life is everlasting, so why not go out and live like the devil? Well, the reason is because I don’t know if I have it. So I’ve got to keep on keeping on in order to find out if I’ve got it or in order to ensure I keep it if I’m an Arminian, right? So the idea that everlasting life by itself being as secure might lead someone to live like the devil is not really the question. 

The question is, if you KenYates are absolutely sure that no matter what you do, you are secure forever. You’re going to be with the Lord forever and you know that because of John 3:16, right? Well, then why aren’t you getting high on cocaine every day? You could. Why aren’t you getting drunk every day? Why aren’t you involved in immorality? Why not go and be involved in the life of immorality? I mean, you could have all kinds of mistresses on the side and things and pastors do this, right? Some. Now, they’re not doing it because they think they’re eternally secure. They’re doing that because they’ve got some besetting sin in their life and they get duped by ultimately the devil.

But we hear this question a lot because people who poo-poo the idea that simply by believing in Jesus, they have eternal life, right? 

KEN: Let me piggyback on that, what you’re saying, grace people, that’s what we’re accused of is if we say, hey, once you have eternal life, you can never lose it. The Calvinist, the Lordship, the Arminian guy is going to say, well, if you tell people that you’re going to encourage them to do it, you’re going to give them a false sense of assurance and they’re just going to go out and live like the devil. 

BOB: And they call us, they have a special curse name for us. It’s called antinomian from the Greek word nomos, meaning law. And they say, we’re against God’s commandments. That we’re actually encouraging people to go out and live like the devil.

KEN: Yeah, the word they often use is we’re promoting sin. That’s exactly right. So is that true? If you teach grace and eternal security, are you promoting sin? 

BOB: See, I know I’m preaching to the choir here, but if you are someone who believes in works salvation or lordship salvation, you are promoting sin. They promote sin because legalism produces sin. Read Romans 7:13-25. What Paul’s talking about there is early in his Christian experience, before he came into contact with some legalists, he was enjoying his walk with Christ, and he was experiencing the type of growth that God expected for him. But then he began to focus on the commandments. Somebody guided him into a fixation on the commandments.

KEN: Which would have been easy when he was a new believer to do that because he was a Pharisee before that. 

BOB: So he focused on the commandments and he said, when I focused on the commandments, I found myself doing the things I didn’t want to do. He ends that chapter by saying, wretched man, who will deliver me from this mortal body, this body of death. And his answer in chapter eight is what?

KEN: Walking by the spirit. 

BOB: The Holy Spirit is going to enable me to walk in the resurrection power of Christ, overcoming the deadness of my body, because this body needs renovation, right? I need it to be glorified. Day by day, I see that more and more. 2 Corinthians 5:2 and 4 says, we who are in these bodies were groaning, looking forward to the day when our bodies are changed. 

ANNOUNCER: It’s coming, it’ll be here before you know it. What am I talking about? The Grace Evangelical Society’s National Conference 2026, May 18th through the 21st at Camp Copass, an absolutely beautiful campground in North Texas right on the lake with lots of recreation, great food, a great place to stay, wonderful fellowship, and wonderful Free Grace Bible teaching. Information and online registration now at faithalone.org/events. First timers waive registration fees. Faithalone.org/events.

KEN: Well, both in Romans and in Galatians when it talks about the works of the flesh, we’re talking about legalism, right? The works of the flesh produce this.

BOB: Right. It’s not that the deeds of the flesh or to walk in the flesh is someone who is saying, you know what, I’m going to rebel against God, just the opposite. It’s the person who says, I’m going to really, really follow the commandments. I’m going to keep a list. I’m going to put it on my mirror. I’m going to put it on my mirror in my car. I’m going to keep it in my pocket. I’m going to check it every five minutes, right? You do that, that doesn’t produce holiness. That produces sin. What I would say is this, the position that by faith in Christ, I am absolutely sure that I am secure forever, that promotes holiness.

KEN: Yeah, you have to start with grace and faith alone who I am in Christ. That’s where it starts, godly living. 

BOB: Well, let me give you an example. I came out of an extreme sinless perfection holiness cult before I came to faith. I was taught if you’d committed one sin after you were born again, you lost your salvation and could never get it back. I was taught in that group that this idea that if you believed you were secure, you would go out and live like the devil. 

KEN: Well, sure. That’s why, it’s so common that we hear this. 

BOB: But when I came to faith, guess what happened? I was pre-med. My life was driven toward going to medical school and becoming a doctor. And as soon as I came to faith, my interest in medical school went away and I decided I wanted to spend the rest of my life telling people about this. 

KEN: And part of that was what Bob ain’t going to say is that he was just starting advanced chemistry. 

BOB: That’s right, I didn’t want to take organic chemistry. That’s right. But you know, the thing about it is, I found in my experience and my experience doesn’t prove anything. But all I’m saying is I found in my experience the exact opposite. My longing and desire is to please the Lord Jesus Christ. I long to hear Him say, “Well done, good and faithful servant.” I live each day in light of the fact that He’s coming again and I’m going to stand before him at the Judgment Seat of Christ. And the idea that somehow I’m motivated to be an alcoholic having grown up in an alcoholic family and seeing the devastation that causes, I don’t drink at all. And I could. And I believe the Bible actually says a lot of nice things about wine, right? But since I’m a child of an alcoholic, it doesn’t make a lot of sense for me to drink. And the idea of rebelling against God is stupidity. Do I want to be like the prodigal son? 

KEN: Well, that’s what when we first started off and you said, well, if we believe once saved always saved, why don’t I go out and take drugs? Well, have you seen what a meth person’s teeth looks like? I mean, I’m just talking. 

BOB: You know what? They’re all methed up. 

KEN: I mean, when you look at, just take the theology out of it. First of all, grace is the greatest motivation to live—that’s what we’re saying. Grace is the greatest motivation to live a godly life, not to live a sinful life. But even if we just look at it logically, you know, those things you list, why wouldn’t I take drugs? Why wouldn’t I become a drunk? Well, it’s expensive. It’ll ruin my life. You know, I’m just talking about logically. Why not have a bunch of mistresses? Because just look around and see what that does to people’s lives. 

BOB: It ruins your marriage. And it ruins your family. And you’re going to get lots of sexually transmitted diseases. And you’re going to have lots of turmoil in your life. You’re going to be balancing all of these relationships. 

KEN: And if you’re an important person, you come out on the Epstein list. I mean, all kinds of things. You know, so why wouldn’t you do because I’ve got two brain cells? 

BOB: Yes. It’s, it’s kind of like if I’m eternally secure, why wouldn’t I break my leg? Well, yeah, I guess I could, but that this doesn’t appeal to me. And so why wouldn’t I do drugs? Because that doesn’t appeal to me. Why wouldn’t I be involved in immorality? Because you see, if you understand reality, right, the way the Bible explains life, right, then you know that the wages of sin is death. I mean it’s horrible for you.

KEN: In the wisdom literature, in the New Testament James, and Proverbs in the Old Testament, you know, it’s stupid to live that way. But more importantly, once saved always saved is biblical. It’s what the New Testament teaches, John 5:24 and so many other verses in the Gospel of John. 

So anyway, if you’re interested in more about this, come to our conference. That’s probably one of the plenary sessions. And at the conference, we’re going to keep grace in focus.

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On our next episode: what is the substitutionary atonement and must we believe in it? Join us next time and until then, let’s keep grace in focus.