Transcript

ANNOUNCER: You’ve probably heard the passage where people are quoted as saying, Lord, Lord didn’t we do all these things in your name? And why can’t we get into the Kingdom of Heaven? And the answer, depart from me, I never knew you. What are the true implications of this passage? Let’s discuss it here coming up next on Grace in Focus. And when you get a moment, please remember this website, faithalone.org, that’s where you can learn a lot about the Grace Evangelical Society, including our seminary. It is a free online seminary, free if you maintain a 3.0 average, and you can earn an Mdiv Degree from the Grace Evangelical Seminary. Find out all the details at faithalone.org. 

And now with today’s discussion here are Bob Wilkin and Ken Yates. 

KEN: We’re talking about different texts that are misunderstood because, well, they’re called tough texts, but they’re misunderstood because people, when they come to these passages, misinterpret them because they forget what the Scriptures clearly teach.

BOB: That’s right. And the sad thing is, if you go to Bible college or seminary, you’re actually going to be taught to misinterpret these. 

KEN: Right. It’s certainly in the commentary traditions. 

BOB: Oh, you got to be careful of it. 

KEN: And this is another very common one. The passage we’re going to look at now.

BOB: And what is that?

KEN: Matthew 7:21-23.

BOB: Yeah. Now, Matthew 7:21-23 is the famous “Lord, Lord” passage. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had people tell me this passage proves lordship salvation is true.

KEN: Oh, I have to. 

BOB: I remember Zane Hodges told me a story he was on an airplane and the guy next to him they got to chatting and found out the other guy was interested in the Bible and was a professing Christian. This guy brought up Matthew 7:21-23 when Zane was talking to him about the free gift of eternal life. And Zane said, you understand that those verses actually contradict your lordship salvation position. And the guy’s like, no, no. And he’s like, yes, yes. And he showed him. And the guy was like, I don’t think we should talk anymore. 

KEN: I was going to ask, did he convince him?

BOB: I don’t think he did. But what I found with people like that is oftentimes they’re not open. Oftentimes they don’t want to hear the truth because they’re convinced that they’re right. And of course, it’s not just one verse, right? This is one of many they will go to. But let’s read that if you would, Matthew 7:21-23. 

KEN: Matthew 7:21-23, the Lord is speaking. This is towards the end of the Sermon on the Mount. He says, ‘Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons in your name, and done many wonders in your name?” 

It’s striking how three times in your name, in your name, in your name occurs. Whoever these people are, they’ve done a lot of stuff in Christ’s name. And then He says,”And then I will declare to them, I never knew you depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.” 

BOB: And yeah, and the word translated practice doesn’t mean this is like someone who practices shooting free throws. This means one who, the Greek word is “does unrighteousness or lawlessness”. So the question is, how is this passage misinterpreted? And how should we interpret it? So how is it misinterpreted? What would a lot of people say this passage teaches? 

KEN: What I always hear, or very commonly here, is not everyone who says, Lord, Lord, will enter in the kingdom, what they say is, you know, there’s a lot of professing Christians. And they’ll even say even toward grace people, you’re just easy believism. You know, you believe that you’re saved by grace, by faith, and that works have no role in it. And so what Jesus is saying is not everyone who says, Lord, Lord, is going to enter into the kingdom. 

BOB: But the ones who enter into the kingdom are the ones who do what? 

KEN: Do good works. 

BOB: Right. They interpret, notice what it says. He who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. Here’s the key interpretive issue in this passage. What does it mean to do the will of the Father who is in heaven? If you take the view that it means to do good works and persevere in good works, then that leads to what people would call works salvation, or at the very least lordship salvation. 

KEN: Sure. Yeah, I’ve got to do. If the will of the Father here means I’ve got to do what He tells me to do, Ten Commandments, whatever. You know, whatever commandments you’re talking about. Love God with all your heart, love your neighbors yourself. You know, that’s if it’s His commandments, then the one who does the will of Father keeps the commandments will enter into the kingdom of heaven. 

BOB: And keep in mind here, we’re not thinking of the will of the Father concerning everything. In other words, the passage isn’t dealing with the will of the Father regarding the way husbands should treat their wives, right? Right. That’s not in this passage. The issue here is the will of the Father regarding entering the kingdom. 

KEN: Bingo, that’s it. So we would say for the unbeliever, what is the will of the Father?

BOB: To believe in the Son. Steve Elkins has done a study. I believe, I can’t remember what the number is, he has something like 18 times in the New Testament this expression “will of the Father” occurs. And it’s always believing in the Son, always. My own study, I’ve seen it 10 times in Matthew and all 10 refer to believing in the Son. 

And so this is not talking about husbands loving their wives or parents raising their children in the fear in the Lord. 

KEN: Or we should serve one another. 

BOB: Right. Or the were to give bountifully and the Lord will, you know, reward us bountifully. This isn’t the will—everything God wants us to do, all the commands of God. This is the specific will of the Father concerning entering the kingdom. 

KEN: And that’s the point in this context, it’s who’s going to enter the kingdom. I mean, that’s what it says there. It says in verse 21, not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom. 

ANNOUNCER: You’re invited to subscribe to the Grace Evangelical Society’s YouTube channel. You will find our Monday, Wednesday and Friday videos there enlightening and encouraging, and even probably humorous at times if you like Bob Wilkin’s humor. Indeed you will get Biblical truth about Free Grace themes like faith alone for eternal salvation and why the Grace Evangelical Society is zero point Calvinistic. We come your way three times a week at the Grace Evangelical YouTube channel. Check it out and tell a friend about the Grace Evangelical Society. 

KEN: What is the requirement for entering the kingdom? 

BOB: Believing in the Son, right? 

KEN: And this goes to our whole discussion on tough texts. You got to interpret the unclear by the clear and the Scriptures clearly say, he who believes in him has eternal life. 

BOB: John 6:47, John 3:16, John 52:4, et cetera. Now, by the way, Hodges when he’s sitting on the plane and they went back and forth on this passage, he said, you realize this passage is talking about lordship salvation. This passage is talking about you. You’re one of the people who are going to say, Lord, didn’t I prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, do many wonders? Or you may not use that exact language. You may say, didn’t I share my faith a lot? Didn’t I love my wife as Christ loves the Church? Didn’t I care for my family? Didn’t I give my money, sacrificially to my local church? Didn’t I serve as an elder in my church? Didn’t I do all these things? And the Lord’s going to say, I never knew you. 

You see, if you think you’re going to get into the kingdom because of your works, then you’re not believing the promise of John 3:16. In fact, you’re even denouncing the promise of John 3:16. 

KEN: Because you’re saying it’s not by faith. 

BOB: Right. You’re saying it’s that’s cheap grace. You’re calling that easy believism. You’re basically saying, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory is wrong. And so you need to realize unless you believed in the past and have come to believe in lordship salvation later on, you’re not yet born again. Boy, that doesn’t go over well when you’re talking with a lordship salvation person. 

KEN: You know, one of the guy on the plane said, I think I’m going to take a nap now.

BOB: Let me tell you a quick story about the year 98 or something, I debated a Church of Christ evangelist down in Baytown, Texas. I’m in front of about 400 people, about 390 of them were Church of Christ people, either from his church or that had flown in and driven in to be there. And about 10 people were grace people that I had told I was going to be there. In the course of the thing I said, the reason I’m participating in this debate is I’m concerned about your eternal destiny. I’m concerned about your regeneration. You’re not going to get into the kingdom unless you believe that by faith in Jesus, apart from baptism, apart from repentance, apart from obedience, simply by believing in him that you’re born again forever. You’re not going to get in. 

So we had two debates, each one lasted a little over an hour. And in the break, I’m talking. One of the guy comes up and says, I’m a graduate of Denver Seminary. And he said, I was Church of Christ the whole time. And he said, I want you to know that I had lots of conversation with lots of Denver Seminary students. Not one of them told me they were concerned about my eternal salvation. Not one. And he said, I disagree with you strongly, but I am glad to hear you say that you questioned my salvation because if you’re right, then I’m not saved. Now, I’m concerned about your salvation because you’re wrong, but in any case, he got it. 

And I really think that when you’re talking to lordship salvation people and they bring up this passage, I think it’s appropriate to tell them, look, I’m concerned for you. You’re my brother. You’re my sister. You’re my cousin. You’re my coworker. You’re my best friend. If you’ve always believed this, if you’ve never believed it was simply by faith in Christ, you’re one of the people that at the Great White Throne Judgment that’s going to hear this. You need to do the will of the Father. And that’s to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:16. 

KEN: I want to just add about this, even the examples that the Lord gives about prophesying and casting out demons and doing wonders in His name. You go to a place like Africa, the countries in Africa. Man, you run into all kinds of people who are so steeped in work salvation. 

BOB: And you’ve been there many times and you’ve seen it many times. 

KEN: And they claim this. Claim to be apostles. They claim to cast out demons. They claim to heal people. I’ve even had them said that some of them have raised the dead. But when you hear their gospel, none of them believe in salvation by grace. It’s all by works. 

BOB: We mentioned the repeated phrase, prepositional phrase in your name. This suggests these are not Buddhists. These are not Hindus. These are not Muslims. These are not atheists. They’re not agnostics. These are people coming from within Christianity. Or possibly Judaism. But since it’s Jesus in particular, it would be people within Christianity because most of the Jewish people would say, Jesus was a false prophet. 

KEN: And there’s lots of people today again who are claiming to be believers, who preach and have only believed in a salvation by works who are claiming to do this stuff. God spoke to me. God said this. And I’ve done this ministry because God told me to. So that’s claiming to be a prophet, but they’ve never believed the gospel of grace. 

BOB: This passage ought to wake people up. It ought to make them say, wait a minute, I’m in trouble unless it’s by faith apart from works. Because my works are never going to be good enough. 

KEN: Yeah, this is a reminder that we receive eternal life by grace. And that’s a good place for us to end because we want to remind people—keep grace in focus. 

ANNOUNCER: We would love to know where you are when you are listening to us. Please take a short minute to send us the call letters of this station and the city where you are listening, and how many times a week you listen. Thank you. You will be helping us with our stewardship. Send it to radio@faithalone.org. That’s radio@faithalone.org. We are so thankful for our financial partners who keep us on the air. Every gift is tax deductible and very much appreciated. If you’d like to find out how you can give, go to faithalone.org. On our website, we have a church tracker. It’s an easy to use map that will help you locate those other free grace churches that might be in your area. So come visit us at the website and take advantage of our free church tracker. It’s at faithalone.org. That’s faithalone.org. 

Now we thank you so much for joining us all this week on Grace in Focus. Have a great weekend. We hope to see you again on Monday right here. Until then, keep grace in focus.