Transcript

ANNOUNCER: Many Bible teachers today wanting to describe whether salvation is real or not, will use this phrase: “no root, no fruit”. Or they might say “no fruit, no root”. What is meant by this? Where does it come from? Is it valid? Let’s have a discussion about it in the next few minutes here on Grace in Focus. We are a ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society—delighted that you’re joining us today. Our website is faithalone.org. Hope you will go there to find out more about us, including our seminary, our free online seminary, where you can earn an MDiv degree. Come and study with us, become a workman not ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Find out all the application details at faithalone.org. 

And now with today’s discussion, here are Ken Yates and Kathryn Wright. 

KEN: Kathryn, we had a question from Steve and he heard this phrase and he wanted to know what it meant. I think he has a pretty good idea and he says he thinks he does, but he wanted us to talk about it and whether it’s biblical. And the phrase is no fruit, no root. Or I think you could say it the other way. No root, no fruit. And when that phrase is used by evangelicals today, it’s basically you’ll know them by their fruits. You know, Matthew chapter seven. If a person does not have good works, then they’re not saved. No fruit, no good works, then there’s no root. There’s, the Holy Spirit doesn’t live within them. Of course, this would be what a Calvinist or lordship salvation person would say that if you don’t continue in good works, which is the fruit, then you don’t have the root. You’re not saved, you’re not a true believer. 

KATHRYN: I think it’s also connected to Luke 8 and the parable of the four soils, in the second soil, that the one that has no roots, it withers. 

KEN: It’s also interesting, in Luke 8 they don’t have deep roots. 

KATHRYN: Right, but it doesn’t produce any fruit and so their point is, and they’ll say that’s a picture of an unbeliever. 

KEN: Right, and of course, they would also point to John 15, where Jesus is the vine and you are the branches. Apart from me, you can do nothing. And so the branches that don’t produce good fruit is cast into the fire. And of course, there’s a problem with John 15 taking that view because he’s talking to the disciples. And Judas is no longer there, so he’s only talking to the 11 believing disciples, he’s talking to them about producing fruit. And so this no fruit, no root, is basically the Calvinistic doctrine that true believers produce good fruit. 

KATHRYN: And also that no fruit, no root really is no fruit, no life. But like if I could go back to the Luke 8 example, there’s still a plant there. It still has life. It just may not be healthy. And so that would be our distinction as free gracers, that we’re talking about the quality of life. When we’re talking about fruit production, whereas the Calvinist perspective is well, if you’re not producing these works, then that means there’s no life at all. 

KEN: And they would also say that if you go to the parable, go, well, there’s a plant there. 

KATHRYN: The word went down and sprang up the seed. 

KEN: They would say you’re that a parable only teaches one truth and you’re trying to find more than one truth and you’re trying to find too much in the parable. And so the other side of this coin is, they would say that the reason there is no, and this is what we’re getting into, we’re going to go to the passage. The reason they would say that if there’s no fruit, there’s no root is because God is not at work in that person. Reason there’s no fruit is because you don’t have God’s life in you 

KATHRYN: Because he didn’t choose you. 

KEN: He did not choose you. And therefore, of course, you see no fruit because God’s not working in you. 

KATHRYN: And if God is working, there will be fruit. 

KEN: Right. That’s the other side of that. Right. If you are saved, if there is the root, then there’s going to be fruit. 

KATHRYN: Because God desires it. 

KEN: That’s right. God is not working in the unbeliever. And God is working in the believer. 

KATHRYN: And fruit is guaranteed. If He’s working. 

KEN: If He’s working. 

KATHRYN: If the Lord is at work, then fruit is guaranteed. 

KEN: Right. And so that’s how we know. Now, of course, before we look at this passage, another problem with their view is, well, how many works? And how do I know? Because I think even the most debased unbeliever, look at their life and go, well, man, that’s good. He does something good there. Even a terrible rotten unbeliever, for example, may love his child. He may give to St. Jude or something, and so—

KATHRYN: Well, I mean, there’s unbelievers, you think of the Jehovah Witnesses or Mother Teresa. They spend their whole lives taking care of the sick and the needy. But they’ve never believed in Jesus for eternal life as far as we know. 

KEN: Okay, so one passage that came up, there’s an Old Testament passage that they appeal to. In fact, I was listening to a famous lordship guy talking about John 15. And he says, you know, you’re going to get burned up because there’s no fruit in your life. And he said that this is what is taught in Isaiah chapter five. And when I read that, I thought of you, because once again, I’m going to put a plug in for the GES commentary that Lord willing and if He tarries is due to come out at the end of next year. And Kathryn, she’s the one who’s writing on Isaiah. And this lordship guy said, Isaiah five, supports the idea, no root, no fruit. And I found that strange and I think you’re going to find it strange. And the idea that if God is at work, there’s going to be good fruit. 

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KEN: In Isaiah chapter five, Isaiah is talking about Israel. And that Israel is God’s vineyard. When you read the first few verses of Isaiah chapter five, it says, his vineyard is on a fruitful hill. God has placed his vineyard on a fruitful hill. God dug it up and cleared out the stones. I don’t know anything about farming, but I think I know enough to know that if you’re going to plant something, you got to get rid of the stone, good soil. And he put the choicest vine there. He built the tower in the midst of this vineyard to keep enemies away from it, maybe animals and he put a wine press in it  and he expected, God expected it to bring forth good grapes. But it brought forth wild grapes. 

KATHRYN: Or sour, some translations. 

KEN: This is in Isaiah chapter five verses one and two. And then in verse three talks to Jerusalem specifically. So I found it strange that this lordship guy would appeal to Isaiah chapter five to make his point that if there’s no fruit, then God is not at work. Because here, there’s no good fruit, but God is very much at work.

KATHRYN: And expecting fruit. He’s expecting it. 

KEN: Right. It says there. He was expecting, you know, he put the wine press in it. 

KATHRYN: What more could he have done? 

KEN: Right. And of course, when we look at Israel, we would say God gave them the law. 

KATHRYN: He gave them the land. 

KEN: He brought them in the Promised Land, he defeated their enemies. He gave them the sacrificial system. 

KATHRYN: He made them wealthy. 

KEN: He could bless. He sent the prophets to them. And He expected good fruit. And what happened in the days of Isaiah? What have you found as you work through that book? 

KATHRYN: Whoo, not good stuff. They’ve turned to idolatry. They have made alliances with the Gentile nations around them. In chapter seven, their King Ahaz is going to, basically going to enslave the nation to the Assyrians through his alliance with them. They are not trusting in the Lord. They’re trusting in their worldly wisdom. idolatry is a huge, huge problem. They’re worshipping their pagan, these pagan gods. They’re marrying Gentile women, getting involved with all of their superstitious practices. A lot of very, very bad things. 

It’s interesting in chapter one, it talks about the indictment of the nation that they’ve just completely rebelled against God. That’s what he says. He says, I’ve nourished you and yet you’ve rebelled against me. So similar idea here and that they still go to the temple and they’re doing their sacrifices. But it’s all for nought, their hands are bloodied from their victims. Their leaders are corrupt. They take bribes. They’re mistreating the poor. And so he says, I don’t want your sacrifices. I don’t want your prayers. I’m not going to listen to you because these are all just, all a facade. So yeah, not good. Things are not good. 

KEN: Obviously, when we’re looking at Isaiah five, the idea that, okay, they produce sour grapes. So God was not involved. If you’re going to use Isaiah five to say no root, no fruit. But that’s ridiculous. God has for centuries has been working with the Jews by the time of Isaiah the prophet. 

KATHRYN: And I think also one more verse, in verse four, which I consider to be one of the saddest verses in Isaiah, he says, what more could I have done to my vineyard that I have not done in it. It reminds me of the Lord’s lament in Luke 13 when he cries out, O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how I desired to gather you under my wing, but you were not willing. His desire was for them to come, you know, to have fellowship with Him. That was his desire. That’s what he wanted. But I think this is the problem with the Calvinist thinking in that they start with the assumption that God always gets what He wants because he’s sovereign. But the reality is that, no, He doesn’t. 

And if I can make an application for us as believers, He wants his children to be in fellowship with Him, but He doesn’t get that all the time. We can fall out of fellowship with Him. We can rebel. We can be a prodigal son. So the Lord does not always get what He wants. He does not get what He desires. What more could he have done? There wasn’t any more that He could have done. 

KEN: When you go to Isaiah 5, I would just ask the listeners, the Calvinist, I’m assuming I’m almost positive would say that the whole nation was just unbelievers. They didn’t produce what God wanted. They all went off into the Babylon, they, you know, whatever. No, there were believers there. But the nation did not produce and the believers there did not produce what God wanted them to produce. There were unfaithful believers there. You know, so you can’t just—there’s two things. God expected the nation of Israel. He was working. He expected good fruit. And they did not do that. That included both believers and unbeliever in the nation. And so the Calvinist is bankrupt here. 

Well, we hope this is helpful in understanding Isaiah 5 and John 15. And remember, keep grace in focus. 

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