Transcript

ANNOUNCER: What condition or conditions are necessary to be born again? How many are there? We entertain a question today about the suggestion of five conditions, which we will discuss in light of Scripture. Thank you, friend, for joining us today here on Grace and Focus. This is a ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society. We are located in North Texas. We have a website, faithalone.org, where you can learn more about us, read our articles, introduce to our online seminary, our magazine, and we also especially want you to know about our national conference next May 18th through the 21st. We invite you to it, go get information about it at our website, faithalone.org. 

And now with today’s question and answer discussion, here are Bob Wilkin and Sam Marr. 

SAM: All right, Bob, we’ve got a question from Paul. He’s asking, kind of just your thoughts on a lesson that his Sunday school teacher gave. He said his Sunday school teacher’s a retired Baptist pastor, and he’s teaching about salvation right now. And he outlined five points that explain what we are saved by or how to be saved. 

BOB: Okay, wait a minute, we’ve got five conditions, five steps, five things we must do.

SAM: And it’s a little more than the ABCs we got—

BOB: Well, ABC is bad enough and what is ABC? 

SAM: ABC is admit, believe, confess. 

BOB: Yeah, so you admit you’re a sinner, you believe, and then they can supply whatever they want there. Believe that Christ is your savior, believe Christ died for your sins and rose again, believe in Jesus for your salvation, something, and then the “C” is confess. And typically, it’s either confess your sins or confess Christ, right? 

SAM: Right, or I think some people even do commit, commit your life. 

BOB: Yeah, some of the”C” would be commit your life to Christ. Those are three. So now we got five, but these aren’t your typical five. Like for example, churches of Christ have believe, obey, confess, repent, be baptized. And the only one that’s a one-time act is the baptism. But you got to keep on believing, keep on obeying, keep on repenting, and keep on confessing Christ. And if you do that, then you keep your salvation. But this is a different five-point plan. And you said the guy’s a former Baptist pastor. So let’s hear the five points and then we can comment on it. Because Paul wants our comments, right? 

SAM: Yeah, because he made it clear he doesn’t agree with what’s being taught here. I’ll just say this too. This is Paul giving us what the five points were. And he worded them very specifically. So point one, repenting from our sinful attitude of thinking that we are equal with God. 

BOB: Okay. So let’s pause there. Repenting of our sinful attitude of thinking we’re equal with God. 

SAM: Yeah, I’ve heard repent and usually people keep it vague, or I’ve heard repent of your sin, which is also vague. But this is very specifically what keeps us from being saved is the fact that we think we’re equal with God. 

BOB: Well, I’ve witnessed one-on-one with hundreds and hundreds of people during my four years on staff with Cru, and since then many people I’ve talked to, I don’t think I’ve met a single person who thought they were equal with God. I met people who were atheists who believed there was no God. Have you met anybody who thought they were equal with God? 

SAM: No—

BOB: Other than Satan. 

SAM: The only thing I can think of is that it’s just a very extreme way of stating pride. I’ve heard people say that until you humble yourself, you can never be saved. If you’re prideful, then you’re not going to be—

BOB: Right. I’ve heard that, but the problem is when you look at the gospel of John, and this is where we get the evangelism of Lord Jesus Christ, He never says repent of your sinful attitude that you think you’re equal with God in order to be born again. In fact, there’s nothing about repentance in the entire Gospel of John. Any kind of repentance, however you define it, it’s not there. And on top of that, the issue in the Gospel of John is believing in the Lord Jesus Christ for everlasting life has nothing to do with this issue.

So first point I would say is, this sounds a little bit innocuous, because he’s not saying, like you said, he’s not saying, turn for your sins or clean up your life, but it’s not totally harmless, because what he’s talking about would lead people to wonder, well, do I have pride? 

SAM: Yeah, if it’s just general pre-evangelism, then I mean, if I was evangelizing to someone, and they said, no, I’m God, then I would say, okay, we need to deal with that issue, because they’re not going to believe anything I have to tell them about Christ or the Bible, or—that’s pre-evangelism. 

BOB: I think if they said, I’m God, I would say, look, let’s go check you into the hospital. Either they’re being sarcastic when they say they’re God, or if they literally think they’re God, they shouldn’t be on the loose, but okay, let’s go to point two. 

SAM: So point two is asking forgiveness for that attitude. So this is, again, where it’s very, I’ve never heard anyone talk about it like this, because I would, if someone was just saying repent of your sin and then ask for forgiveness for your sin, that’s a pretty common way people evangelize, but this is your sin and general doesn’t matter. It’s only your pride in thinking you’re equal with God, and you need to repent and ask for forgiveness. 

BOB: Okay, so again, it sounds a little harmless, but I don’t think it is. And the other problem with it is, regardless of what you’re asking forgiveness for, nowhere in the Bible, are we told if you ask for forgiveness, you have eternal life, or that this is one of multiple steps. So this point is [unintelligible], what’s the third point? 

SAM: All right, third point’s pretty good, maybe. This is believing by faith that Jesus fulfilled both demands of the law and gives credit as if we did it. 

ANNOUNCER: Just jumping in here to make you aware of our magazine, Grace in Focus. It is a bi-monthly six issues per year, 48-page magazine, full color. And we want you to subscribe by emailing your name and your snail mail address to ges@faithalone.org. The subscription is free. It can be accessed electronically or it can be actually physically sent to you if you live in the lower 48 United States. That’s our Grace in Focus magazine. Send your name and snail mail address to ges@faithalone.org.

SAM: All right, third point’s pretty good, maybe. This is believing by faith that Jesus fulfilled both demands of the law and gives credit as if we did it. 

BOB: All right, so Jesus fulfilled the demands of the law and gives credit as though we did it. Well, Genesis 15:6 which is quoted in Romans chapter four and Galatians chapter three, says Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned or accounted to him for righteousness. So there is Christ’s righteousness which is imputed to us. I think that’s more or less what he’s saying on point three. So can we give that one two thumbs up? 

SAM: I give it one thumbs up. 

BOb: How come? 

SAM: Well, fulfilling the demands of the law is confusing to me, because as you just mentioned Abraham, but what law did Abraham—

BOB: He was pre-law of Moses.

SAM: Exactly. So that to me, it’s confusing because that would make it seem like there’s been different ways people are justified or saved or born again throughout history. 

BOB: You’re right, the commands have changed over time and right now we’re not under the law of Moses, but basically what he’s saying there is, whatever era we’re in, we realize Christ met the demands of all of God’s commandments or laws and that His righteousness is imputed to us, but he doesn’t say it quite that clearly. So okay, I will give it one thumb up. And what’s the fourth point? 

SAM: Point four, that’s where it’s sad because that should really be where it ends. If we take one and two as pre-evangelism, get your mind right, maybe three is believe, that should really be the end and now you teach someone how they can be a disciple. 

BOB: But notice he doesn’t have believe that by faith in Jesus, you have everlasting life. It’s believing He’s met the requirements and He can impute those to you. But as you can see in four and five, it comes off the rails, especially in five, but okay, what’s four? SAM: Yeah, four is inviting Jesus into our heart to be our Lord and Savior by using the faith he gives us. 

BOB: Okay, so “by using the faith he gives us”, that’s Calvinism, that’s not the Bible. Jesus said in John 5:39-40, “You search the Scriptures for in them, you think you have eternal life, but these are they which testify of Me, but you’re not willing to come to me that you may have life.” The issue is not that God hadn’t given them the gift of faith. The issue was they were unwilling to come to Christ, which in John’s Gospel is believing. 

So this one is a problem. It’s not inviting Jesus into our heart. There’s no verse anywhere in the Bible that says if we invite Jesus into our heart, we have eternal life and worse, he says invite Jesus into your heart as Lord and Savior, right? So this sounds like a mild lordship salvation statement. 

SAM: Yeah, we would distinguish Lord is a discipleship, sanctification designation and Savior is a—if it’s saved permanently unto everlasting life, not temporarily. And that’s where we get into five which—

BOB: But it would be believing, not inviting. You don’t invite Him to be your Savior, because that suggests, well, you don’t know if you’ve got it or not, you’re just saying, Hey, I’d like to invite you to do this, whether you do it or not’s up to you. Well, it’s not an invite, but okay. 

SAM: And if in three, you’ve already believed then does that mean there are people who can believe that he’s done this thing, but they don’t invite Him into their heart. I mean, that’s where it’s—

BOB: Oh, there’s a lot of people Sam, and you know it who say, first you believe, then you trust and they say believing is not enough. According to this guy’s system, one and two gets you to three and then three gets you to the trust part, which he calls inviting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. And then five is the perseverance part, which is particularly bad. 

SAM: Yeah, well, five he starts with “at that moment, a spiritual birth takes place”. So at the moment you invite, not at the moment you believe, but the moment you invite Him into your heart, “a spiritual birth takes place, and from that moment on, we continually believe that we are being saved.” 

BOB: Yeah, so we continually believe that we’re being saved. So the implication of his fifth point is if we stop believing we are being saved, then either we lose our salvation or prove we weren’t saved in the first place, right? 

SAM: Probably the second one, because he doesn’t say he says from that point on we continually, not my should or we have to. It’s just a matter of fact, once you invite Jesus into your heart, you will continually believe that you’re being saved. 

BOB: Well, it sounds to me like this guy is a reformed Baptist, a Baptist who is a Calvinist. He talks about the gift of faith, but he’s couched it in terms that a lot of people wouldn’t exactly hear. He’s talking about perseverance of the saints, but he doesn’t quite call it perseverance. And so it looks to me like he’s trying to simplify Calvinism down to what he thinks is a way that people can get it pretty easily, but it’s clearly from a lordship salvation perspective. 

So Paul, I would say you’re right to have your antennae up and to say this is wrong, and I would encourage everyone of you—be a Berean, search the Scriptures to see if these things are so because if we we are then one day the Lord will approve of us and he’ll say “Well done, good and faithful servant.” So what so we do in the meantime, Sam? SAM: Keep grace in focus. 

ANNOUNCER: We would love to know where you are when you are listening to us. Please take a short minute to send us the call letters of this station and the city where you are listening and how many times a week you listen. Thank you. You will be helping us with our stewardship. Send it to radio@faithalone.org. That’s radio@faithalone.org. We are so thankful for our financial partners who keep us on the air. Every gift is tax deductible and very much appreciated. If you’d like to find out how you can give, go to faithalone.org. On our website, we have a church tracker. It’s an easy to use map that will help you locate those other free grace churches that might be in your area. So come visit us at the website and take advantage of our free church tracker. It’s at faithalone.org.

Well friend, we thank you for joining us each day this week. We’re glad to have had you along and we’re wishing you a great weekend. We look forward to seeing you again next Monday and in the meantime, let’s keep grace in focus.