ANNOUNCER: 2 Corinthians 5:17, “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.” Does this first guarantee internal changes? External changes? Does it supply a test that a person is born again or not? A few questions we’ll be talking about today here on Grace in Focus and we’re delighted that you joined us. This is a broadcast and podcast ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society. Our website is faithalone.org. Please join us there to learn more about us—our free online seminary, our free bi-monthly magazine also called Grace in Focus, our bookstore. And right now we’re inviting you to come and join us at our national annual conference, May 18th through the 21st. Time is getting close. We urge you to get the information you need. Get signed up. Come and join us. Find all you need at faithalone.org. 

Now with today’s question and answer discussion, here are Bob Wilkin and Ken Yates. 

BOB: Ken, I’ve got a question that came up in Sunday school this past Sunday. Gail asked the question, I had been talking about 2 Corinthians 5:17. Maybe you can turn there. Could you read that verse to us? 

KEN: Okay, I’m going to read it out of the New King James Version. And I say that because there’s some italics or some words in italics here. Okay, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ,” and in the New King James Version, it says, “he is,” and that’s in italics, “a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.” 

BOB: So one of the things I said in Sunday school is a lot of people use that verse to say, this is one of the tests of whether you’re born again or not. I recently did a video on this where someone said, this verse promises that if you were in Christ, all the old things have passed away. All things have become new. Your life has been radically changed. 

Now it was funny because the pastor said this says this doesn’t mean you don’t have sins that you’re still dealing with it. It doesn’t mean you have instant maturity, but he said what it does mean is, if you don’t see some radical changes in your life, then you’re not born again. 

KEN: Which is, boy you talk about subjective, how do I measure that? 

BOB: Well, exactly. So in the class, I said that the words that you mentioned are in italics, “he is,” are not in the Greek. 

KEN: Yeah. For example, let me read that without the italics. “Therefore, if any man is in Christ, a new creation.” That’s what it says. 

BOB: Right, and that is what it says and some translations and in Sunday school, I quoted, I think five or six of them translate that there is a new creation. They supply the words “there is.” Well, if you look at the verses before 2 Corinthians 5:17, doesn’t he say something about, we no longer recognize anyone in the flesh? 

KEN: Yeah, it talks about in verse 16, “Therefore, from now on, we recognize no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know him thus no longer.” 

BOB: So when he says, “if anyone is in Christ, new creation,” or “there is a new creation,” part of that is saying, I don’t look at you, Ken, as just a regular human being, I look at you as part of the same species I am, which is a person who has a eternal life. I recognize you as a brother in Christ, and I recognize that people who have not yet believed in Christ are like a different species, they lack everlasting life. And so my whole world has changed. Now, it’s not automatic that a new believer gets this, we need to make sure they understand they’re part of a new creation. Now, ultimately, that new creation is going to be revealed when Christ returns and sets up His kingdom, right? And we’re going to have a kingdom of justice and righteousness and peace. Right now, we don’t see all that in our world, but we are still part of that new, that’s our citizenship, and that’s part of our new world. But it doesn’t mean my life has radically changed. 

I spoke in a Baptist church a few years ago, and when I was speaking in the Sunday School class, I mentioned this verse, and I mentioned how a lot of people say this guarantees your life has changed instantly. And this guy who was in the trades, I think he was a carpenter. He said, “That’s so angers me.” He said, “I’m a recovering alcoholic.” And he said, “I haven’t had a drink in five years, but I still struggle every day with wanting to drink. It’s a day by day fight. And I didn’t quit drinking the moment I came to faith. And when someone tells me that it’s just automatic, you come to faith, and suddenly you don’t desire alcohol anymore, you don’t drink anymore, whatever your problem is, you don’t have it anymore.” He said, “It really makes me angry”. And I get his point, maturity takes time, growth takes time, and it’s not guaranteed. 

KEN: Well, the other thing about the guaranteed part is, as a new believer, you haven’t been taught. So if it’s automatic, then what, you just do it automatically? Why do you need to be taught? 

BOB: Exactly. And so, okay, but I still haven’t gotten to the question yet. 

KEN: Okay, what was Gail’s question? 

BOB: I get your point that we’re not going to be looking at our life to see if we’re born again by looking at our fruit. But she says, doesn’t the Bible teach there are internal changes that take place when we believe in Christ when we’re born again? And I thought that was a great question. What kind of internal changes occur at the moment we’re born again, Ken? Can you think of any? 

KEN: We receive eternal life. 

BOB: Okay. So that makes us different. 

KEN: Right, the new man. What is it? Lewis Sperry Chafer said 33 things. 

BOB: He said there were 33 things. Some of the other things were things like we’re justified, declared righteous. 

KEN: Given a spiritual gift. 

BOB: The Holy Spirit lives within us, we’re permanently indwelt by the Holy Spirit, right? KEN: Been baptized into the body of Christ. 

BOB: Okay, so now we’re a member of the Church, the body of Jesus Christ that we weren’t before. And our citizenship is in heaven. It wasn’t that before. So when Jesus returns, we’re citizens of His coming kingdom. And there’s a lot of things like that. 

KEN: We’re a child of God. 

BOB: We’re sealed by the Holy Spirit. I don’t agree with all 33 of Chafer’s points, but most of them I do agree with, but these changes are internal. So in answer to Gail’s question, yes, there are internal changes. 

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BOB: These changes are internal. So in answer to Gail’s question, yes, there are internal changes. But, and here’s the part I think we need to stress in the remainder of the time we have: that does not guarantee external changes. In fact, it doesn’t even guarantee that internally we’re all right. 

For example, my thinking is to some degree internal right now, it becomes evident when I open my mouth and it becomes evident when I do things because often what we do is a reflection of what we think. Proverbs, you know, as a man thinks in his heart, so is he, that kind of thing. But it seems to me that there’s no guarantee that at the moment of faith, I’m suddenly spiritually-minded. In fact, if you look at 1 Corinthians 2:14-3:3, brand new believers are carnally-minded. And over time, he can become spiritually-minded. And that’s what we should be. And the same thing is true in our behavior. So both our thinking and our behavior all needs to be brought into conformity to Christ. None of that is automatic. 

The 33 things that Chafer’s talking about are changes in my status. I’m now a child of God. I now am a general heir and a lot of things like that. But that’s different than saying my speaking is different. My behavior is different or even my thinking is different. 

KEN: You know, it’s on that topic there. It’s interesting sometimes. In fact, I think I was read another question that was sent in by a listener that this means that you’re going to hate sin. Once again, how subjective is that? 

BOB: Haven’t you heard that a lot? I remember seeing this video and I think that’s what the question was about. This lordship salvation preacher was taking open mic questions. And this young woman came up and she said, I know we’re supposed to live godly, righteous lives. And I long to do that, but I have some issues in my life. I hate my sin. It really bothers me, but I’ve not yet achieved the kind of spiritual maturity that a believer should have. And so I’m doubting my salvation. Can you help me with assurance? 

The pastor’s answer was, well, the very fact that you hate your sin and that you want to be better proves you’re born again, right? Because the unregenerate don’t think that way. And of course, he was coming from a Calvinist perspective that, you know, that the spiritually dead are like cadavers at the bottom of a well. And you can throw them a rope all day long, but they’re never going to grab the rope because they’re cadavers. And in the same way, they can’t respond. 

But that’s malarkey because Calvinists will say, oh no, there’s something called temporary faith, right? Based on the parable of four soils, who believe for a time and in a time of temptation fall away. And so they interpret that to mean that’s an unbeliever who believes for a time, which is inconsistent with Calvinism because they supposedly think you can’t lose your salvation. And yet here’s someone who seems to have it and then lose it. Although they say no, no, what he had was the springing up referred to some kind of spiritual life less than regeneration. 

KEN: Well, you know, it’s sad, but many Calvinists look at Romans 7 where Paul describes his own struggle with sin, the things that I want to do, I don’t do. Most of them will say, well, that’s when he wasn’t a believer. Well, wait a second, if he wasn’t a believer, then why is he struggling with sin? I thought that an unbeliever couldn’t struggle with sin. 

BOB: In other words, this Calvinist answer to the young woman that, well, that’s a good sign because the unbeliever doesn’t struggle. Well, if that is Paul as an unbeliever, then they’ve just contradicted it. And that is the way that pastor, by the way, took that passage, which is a contradiction. And by the way, the young woman, what he should have said to her, is it has nothing to do with your behavior. It’s all your belief. Do you believe that by faith in Jesus, you have everlasting life and you can never lose it? And obviously, the answer was no because she’s looking at herself. She’s introspective. 

KEN: Does she hates her sin enough? 

BOB: What you need to do is take your eyes off yourself. The issue isn’t whether you’re faithful. It’s whether Jesus is faithful. 

KEN: To what He promises. 

BOB: Yeah, He promised everlasting life if you believe in Him. Do you believe He’s telling the truth? And if the answer is yes, then you have assurance. It’s real simple. So I would say in answer to Gail’s question. Does 2 Corinthians 5:17 deny the fact that there are some internal changes? No, of course not. It also doesn’t really say there are internal changes. All it’s saying is you’re part of a new creation. 

KEN: Everything has changed. You’re in a new ball game now. 

BOB: Yeah, yeah. It’s a new world. And everything’s different. Yet it’s going to take you quite a while to realize all that’s different, because you need to grow and mature in the faith. And I remember when I came to faith as a senior in college, I had no idea the journey that was before me. Now I’ve been a believer for 53 years almost, well actually 53 years, and I’m still learning every day. 

KEN: And it’s still a new creation. 

BOB: It is. 

KEN: All right. Well, thank you, Gail, for this question. And remember, keep grace in focus. 

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On our next episode: do English translations sometimes promote false gospels? Come back and join us again. In the meantime, let’s keep grace in focus.