Transcript

ANNOUNCER: Many who want to spread the gospel of eternal salvation will use the Roman’s Road. And though there are some passages that relate, we might say the Roman’s Road doesn’t end very well. And would we be better served to explain the gospel from the gospel of John? Hello, friend. Thank you for joining us today here on Grace in Focus. We come to you each weekday. Glad you’re with us today. This is the broadcast and podcast arm of the Grace Evangelical Society, and you’ll find us at faithalone.org. And on our website, you will find our magazine which has the same name, Grace in Focus. It is a free magazine published six times per year with a great look, great articles, and you’ll find them of interest. And yes, we do want you to have it for free. The only charge is if you do not live in the 48 United States, we’ll ask you to pay the postage. Otherwise, free, find out details at faithalone.org. 

Now with today’s discussion on Romans 10, here are Bob Wilkin and Ken Yates. 

KEN: And we are continuing our discussion on tough texts and all of these tough texts that we’re dealing with are in the New Testament. Up to this point, we’ve done basically Bob and Zane’s book that they did by that title, Tough Texts. But now we’re going to talk about some texts that Bob and Zane did not discuss that is part of our course that we offer through GES in the seminary. 

BOB: On tough texts. 

KEN: Right. And so anybody who’s interested in a course on these, we would encourage you to look into that and contact GES, get in the class, and you can be part of these discussions. One of the tough texts that we deal with in our course is Romans chapter 10, verses 9 and 10. 

BOB: Oh, that comes up a lot. Confessing Jesus as Lord and believing in your heart that God raised him from the dead. And so a lot of people say, you got to believe and you got to confess. 

KEN: Right. And so it’s a two step process. What does that mean? What does it mean to confess him as Lord? And obviously, if you ask 10 preachers, you’re going to get 11 answers, right? 

BOB: Yes, some people have more than one answer. 

KEN: Exactly. And by the way, even those who would disagree with Bob and I, they don’t even agree with themselves. You know, if you get some lordship guys or some Calvinist guys and you ask him, well, what does it mean? You’re going to get different answers. Well, here’s what Romans 10:9-10 have to say. 

And by the way, let me just put in a plug. When you come to the book of Romans, boy, Romans is just so misunderstood. I just really encourage people who are interested in the book of Romans to get Zane Hodges’ book, Romans: Deliverance From Wrath. I’ve got it in my hand right here. 

Part of the reason I do this is, I remember when this book first came out, the first time I went overseas to teach. I went to Philippines and I taught at a Bible college there. And this book had been out about a month and I used this as the textbook. And I had about 25 students from all over Asia and most of them were either young pastors or people involved in ministry all over Asia and boy, I tell you, they struggled with it. I mean, they could only see Romans as evangelistic and we’re going to get that here in this passage, you know, this idea that Romans 10:9-10, well Bob and I are both about to say, confession here is something that believers do, and that’s just anathema. 

BOB: And it’s corporate. 

KEN: Yes, it’s corporate and, you know, we were going through this book and they saw it, but boy, let me tell you, they struggled with it. 

BOB: And also you’re saying that salvation in Romans, every time you come to it, is dealing with deliverance from wrath in this life and that’s a radically different way of seeing the book. 

KEN: Yeah, and imagine if you’ve grown up and that’s all you’ve ever heard. 

BOB: Well, I remember I saw a blog you did recently and you said there are so many people in Christianity, they think pretty much the whole Bible is about how to be saved.

KEN: Well, sure it is. I think most of our readers probably say, yeah, that’s probably right, you know, when all the Bible is doing is telling us how to go to heaven. 

BOB: When the reality is most of the Bible is telling you how to please God. And how to live for God and how to live a life that’s faithful and pleasing to Him. And only occasionally do we get verses on what must I do to have eternal life. I think Romans is a good example. Romans 3:21 to 4:24 does deal with justification by faith, apart from works, but aside from that, the whole rest of the book is about sanctification. 

KEN: Yeah, and I would say that even the justification is the reason why we can live godly, we have access to him, Romans 5, you know. 

BOB: That’s why it’s put in the book. 

KEN: We’ve been declared righteous by God. Now we have access to Him and now we can live in a way that pleases Him as we walk by the Spirit. Obviously. But again, when you look at Romans and say, well, this is just telling me how to go to heaven. I mean, just how radically different is that? 

Well, anyway, in Romans 10:9-10, oh, by the way, the Philippines, I don’t know how the students took it. I was there for about five weeks. They seemed to like it, but I don’t know if they may have been just being nice. But the faculty said what you’re teaching is too weird don’t come back. That was a it was a while ago. 

But anyway, Romans chapter 10, verses 9 and 10, it says, I would ask as I read these verses, who is he talking to? Who are these verses addressed to when he says that “if you confess with your mouth, the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised from the dead, you will be saved.” Okay, is he talking to an unbeliever and obviously, if he is and what we’re saying and is “saved” saved from hell, then you have to do more than believe. You have to confess Him and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead. Notice he doesn’t say believe in Him for eternal life. Right. 

ANNOUNCER: We will rejoin in just a moment. But years ago, Zane Hodges wrote The Gospel Under Siege. Sadly, this is still true. And GES president Bob Wilkin has recently written its sequel. Bob’s new book, The Gospel Is Still Under Siege, is a book about theological clarity on the biblical teaching about eternal salvation. It is available now. Secure yours today at the Grace Evangelical Society’s Bookstore. Find it at faithalone.org/store. That’s faithalone.org/store. Now back to today’s content. 

KEN: And then in verse 10 it says, ‘For with the heart one believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”  Are you already mentioned, Bob, that in Romans salvation never means salvation from hell? 

BOB: Always deliverance from wrath. 

KEN: We might word it consequences that sin brings into my life and sin brings destruction, sin brings death, sin brings lack of fellowship, loss of reward. I mean, there’s all kinds of things that sin brings into my life. 

BOB: Notice how verse 10 indicates that the salvation and the righteousness are two separate things. With the heart one believes under righteousness, which is the noun form, dikaiosyne of Paul’s word justify, dikaioo. And so what he’s saying is with the heart one believes unto justification. 

KEN: I’m justified by faith. Yeah, I believe. 

BOB: But with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. The heart is internal. The mouth is external. So the point here is there’s something internally going on that results in me having right standing with God. But there’s something external that goes on that results in me being saved from God’s wrath. 

And by the way, Hodges doesn’t like the translation. What does it say? “Confess the Lord Jesus.” 

KEN: He doesn’t like the Lord Jesus. He just says Lord Jesus. 

BOB: He’s saying basically that when you’re in church, you’re part of a group of people that is regularly crying out “Lord Jesus”. Could you read the quote from his commentary? I think you have a short quote there. 

KEN: Yes. Well, here this applies to verses 12 and 13 in his commentary. He has this, quote, “Thus believers who gather in Christian assemblies acknowledge the Lord Jesus with their mouths and publicly appeal to His name for all that they need.” And in verses 12 and 13, it says, “for there is no difference between either Jew or Greek since the same Lord of all deals richly with all who appeal to him.” So he’s he’s saying this confession or calling upon Him is appealing to Him. And it says “for whoever shall appeal,” that’s his translation, “call to the name of the Lord will be saved.” He says delivered, because he doesn’t want the confusion there, but delivered from what?  Delivered from the wrath that sin brings. 

BOB: And what’s interesting is those who appeal in the very next verses says, how shall they call upon him or how shall they appeal to him in whom they have not first believed, believing precedes the calling or the appealing? 

KEN: And so what we’re saying here is that Romans 10:9-10 is saying, we believe and we’re justified and now we have the privilege of appealing to Him and we confess Him—BOB: And being delivered from the calamities that come in this life from those who are out of fellowship with Him. 

KEN: Right. And so we believe that He’s raised from the dead and therefore He’s able to deliver us.

BOB: And will—

KEN: And He will—if we appeal to him. 

BOB: If we appeal to him, I like it. You know, I’ve heard so many cockamamie explanations of Romans 10:9-10. I’ve heard people say, well, it is by faith alone, but this confessing the Lord Jesus is just something you do internally. It’s not actually with your mouth. You’re just saying it in your heart. You don’t have to do this publicly or else it would be an additional condition. And it’s not really confessing his lordship. It’s just confessing that he’s God. 

KEN: I’ve heard people say it’s confessing your sins. I mean, oh, yeah, you know, confessing Him, he’s Lord. I’ve sinned against Him and so I need to confess my sins, you know.

BOB: Okay. And how would you harmonize that with the gospel of John? The Lord Jesus never brings up sin when he’s evangelizing people in the gospel of John. He never says you need to confess your sins. He never says you need to turn from your sins. He never says you need to confess Me, none of that. So if you’re going to say Romans 10:9-10 is the way we’re born again, then what do we do with the gospel of John? Do we throw it out? 

KEN: Well, we’d have to, or we’re going to have to. And what we’re doing in these tough texts is—you said this when we first started this—what so many people do is they take these tough texts and then go back to the clear teachings and reinterpret the clear teaching. So people are going to say, if they do that, Romans 10:9-10 is saying, well, we have to confess Jesus as Lord. That’s what he said to the woman at the well. 

BOB: You have to go to seminary to be able to see that. 

KEN: Oh boy, ain’t that the truth. You’ve got to know the Greek really well to be able to say—

BOB: This is probably an Aramaic or Ethiopic or something. 

KEN: Yeah. I mean, take John 3:16, the way we say, you know, Romans 10:9-10 is understood. Try reading that back into John 3:16. 

BOB: Yeah, you can’t do it. 

KEN: You know, you got to confess him, you got to acknowledge he’s Lord, you got to do that. Man, Nicodemus would have said, man, I have no idea what you’re telling me.

BOB: And the disciples at this point didn’t even believe He was going to die. They thought He was going to establish His kingdom. And they were never going to die and He was never going to die and they were going to rule and reign with Him forever. And when He said, by the way, I’m going to Jerusalem, I’m going to suffer and be mistreated and die. Peter says, God forbid it, Lord, you’re not doing that. 

KEN: You’re not doing that. 

BOB: You’re not doing that. 

KEN: And so I know it’s a minority position, but Romans 9 and 10 is saying this, that as a believer, you have the privilege of calling, appealing to Lord Jesus because He’s risen from the the dead. And He’s there to give you all the help that you need, as you call upon Him. 

I would say as an individual and I think Zane is right, but also corporately we can do that, and so as we fellowship with other believers. Thanks, Bob. Thanks for your discussion and for all of our listeners, remember, let’s keep grace in focus. 

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On our next episode, please join us. Are we at an advantage for eternal life if we are doing good? Hope to see you and until then, let’s keep grace in focus.