Transcript

ANNOUNCER: Can eternal salvation ever be lost or revoked? Where does true assurance come from? And what is false assurance? Thank you for listening. This is Grace in Focus. Glad you’re with us today. And we are a ministry at the Grace Evangelical Society. Our website, FaithAlone.org. You can go to that website and find out a lot about us. You can get resources there. Read and research thousands of articles that we have about our free grace position. And we have a free online seminary where you can earn an MDiv degree. Our national annual conference is coming up soon. Get all the details at faithalone.org. 

And now with today’s question and answer discussion, here are Bob Wilkin and Sam Marr. 

SAM: All right, Bob. We’ve got a question from Liam and this is all on eternal security. The way he’s worded his question, it’s a little hard to follow, but we’re going to do our best. And I think there’s some good discussion that we can derive from this. His question is, do you guys hold that if someone thinks that someone else could lose their salvation by rejecting Christ as their Savior, that means they’re not saved? 

BOB: But he had another first question to any of where he said he agreed with us on something. What was that? 

SAM: He started by saying he agrees with us on eternal security in that in order to have eternal security, you have to believe that you can never lose your salvation. 

BOB: Okay, so let’s hit that and then we’ll go to the second half. So he’s saying he agrees with us that you have to believe that you have salvation that cannot be lost in order to be born again. But then he says, what about the person who thinks somebody else can lose their salvation? How does he put it—by rejecting Christ? 

SAM: Yeah, rejecting Christ as their Savior. 

BOB: As their Savior, they would lose salvation. So putting those two together, I think this is what Liam is saying. I think Liam is saying he knows for sure he won’t reject Christ as Savior. He knows for sure he’s not going to fail to persevere. He’s sure that he’s going to persevere in faith and good works. 

Now how he has that certainty when even the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:27 didn’t know that,I don’t know, but I will tell you this. I had a friend in college. He was a pole vaulter. I was a 400 meter 800 meter guy. Anyway, this pole vaulter came to our Athletes in Action Bible study and he was from a charismatic background. So he believed people could lose their salvation. And when he was in our Bible study, we talked about eternal security and we talked about the fact that the one who believes in Jesus has everlasting life and it can never be lost. And he told me one day he said, yeah, I believe people can lose their salvation, but I know I won’t. I said, okay, how do you know that? And he says, because the Holy Spirit told me I’m not going to fall away. So he had special revelation from God that he wasn’t going to fall away. 

Let me give you another example that I think Liam would find interesting. I grew up in Arcadia, California, which is where Focus on the Family was born because Dr. James Dobson lived in Arcadia, California when he started Focus on the Family. Dr. Dobson’s dad had a massive stroke or heart attack and nearly died. And he ended up living, I think, six to nine months after that. But while he was recuperating from this massive near-fatal attack, God in a dream told him, I’ve got some good news for you. You’re going to be in heaven with me forever. You’re going to persevere. So I heard Dr. Dobson say on the radio, this is fantastic news. I know for sure my dad’s going to be there. Well, Dr. Dobson was Nazarene and Dr. Dobson believed you could lose your salvation. But he also believed God could reveal to someone they won’t fall away. And if so, that person could know they were eternally secure. 

So I think what Liam is saying is not, I know I am secure forever regardless of whether I fall away or not. He’s just saying, I know I’m secure forever. That’s what’s required and therefore I could believe that somebody else could lose their salvation. How did he put it by rejecting Jesus as your savior?. 

SAM: Yeah. And just to give him some credit, it’s not clear whether this is his view or someone asked him a question about this or what. But yes, the question he’s asking cannot be reconciled with eternal security. Because rather than chasing rabbit holes, we could say, look, Jesus promised whoever believes in Me for everlasting life has it. It can never be lost. It can never be stolen. It can never be revoked. There’s so many never statements in the Gospel of John. 

BOB: Okay. So let’s give a couple of them. John 3:16. 

SAM: That’s a good one. 

BOB: Never perish. 

SAM: Never perish. Has everlasting life. 

BOB: Has everlasting life. John 5:24. Hears My word and believes in who sent Me. Has everlasting life. Shall not come into judgment that is regarding everlasting life. That is won’t be at the Great White Throne Judgment to be judged. But has already passed from death and to life. Or John 6:35, the one who comes to me will never hunger. You believe in me will never thirst. 

SAM: Yeah, 11:27. That’s Martha. 

BOB: Yeah, 11:26 he lives and believes in Me will never die. And then Martha affirms she believes that. 

SAM: Right. So those things all make it very clear that once someone receives everlasting life, it lasts forever. So you can, there’s a thousand questions we can ask. What if someone commits the unforgivable sin that people like to go to? What if someone, you know, like James 2 talks about, their faith dies or they have dead faith? We can ask all these questions and say, well, what about this? What about this? Or we could go to what Jesus said where he says never, never, never, has everlasting life. Has everlasting life will, you know, has already passed from death and to life. 

And so in light of those very clear, very definitive, ultimate statements, we can look at all these other questions and say, okay, if someone rejects Christ as their savior, but they already had everlasting life, do they lose the everlasting life? No, they can’t because it lasts forever. So I think that’s a better approach than asking, I mean, it’s a good question. I’m glad he asks it, but you can substitute his question with a thousand other questions and the answer to all of them is going to be the same. If someone has everlasting life, then it’s going to last forever. It can’t be lost. It can’t be revoked. No one can snatch you out of the palm of God’s hand. They can’t lose it. Period. 

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BOB: Let me mention a couple things related to that. First of all, I think what we can say, Sam, with that catena verses you mentioned where you were talking about the unpardonable sin, or someone who falls away, and this sort of thing, whatever those verses mean, they can’t contradict John 3:16 or all those “never” verses. And secondly, if a person says, well, what if this person does this, does it prove they weren’t born again in the first place? Well, no, that can’t be because that would contradict all of the “never” statements. And it is clear in Scripture that a believer can fall away. There’s warnings all through the New Testament. 

Let me give you a quick example. A friend of mine, he and I graduated together at Dallas Seminary in 1982. He has pastored for many, many years. His son grew up in a AWANA, and his son came to faith when he was a young boy, and he was involved in a AWANA all through elementary school, and I think middle school. And he was very strong in his faith until he went off to college. During that time, he fell away from his faith and became an atheist. 

Well, that young man is still born again, even though he’s an atheist. Why? Because once a person believes in Christ, he has everlasting life. And as one of my professors, Dr. Charles Ryrie, liked to say, everlasting life is everlasting life. He said, if it could be lost, then it has the wrong name. And remember we talked about all those never statements? Think about the pole vaulter I knew. He had assurance. He was certain he was saved, but that was false assurance. Unless at some point, he got the fact that it was simply by faith in Jesus that he had everlasting life, apart from perseverance, apart from works, apart from anything else, he was not yet born again, even though he was confident he was. 

And the same thing with James Dobson’s dad. If he didn’t at some point believe that simply by faith in Jesus, he was born again, the fact that he had some dream or whatever that told him he was going to persevere, that’s false assurance. Hopefully Dobson’s dad came to faith in Christ at some point and got the fact that it was a free gift and it was by faith alone and the same thing with the pole vaulter. But nobody’s born again by believing if I’m faithful to the end, I’m going to make it. 

SAM: Right. To bring it back to Liam’s question, you can’t say, and I’m not saying this is what Liam is saying, but someone can’t say, “I believe in eternal security, but,” because there’s not a “but.”  

BOB: Right, once you say that, you’ve contradicted I believe in eternal security. 

SAM: Right. So if you’re going to say, I believe in eternal security, but this believer, I know, became an atheist. They rejected Christ as their savior. They’re now saying, Jesus isn’t their savior. They aren’t born again. Whatever they’re saying, if you think that means, oh, okay, that means they’ve now lost their salvation or lost everlasting life, then you haven’t understood the promise that Jesus made, because he didn’t promise whoever believes in Me and keeps on believing in Me, or whoever believes in Me and never, there’s nothing else. There’s just whoever believes in me has everlasting life. That’s the promise he made. 

BOB: That’s a great point. And you know, you’ve heard people say the present tense in John 3:16, which it’s actually not in the indicative. It’s actually a participle, but it’s a participle with the definite article, the, the one who believes or whoever believes. Ho pisteuo. They say, because it’s a present tense, you’ve got to continuously believe your whole life. Well, the problem with that view is, first of all, that would mean there’s not a single born again person on the planet yet, because until you’ve continuously believed you’re not yet born again. But secondly, what it would mean is Jesus lied to the woman at the well. Because He said, one drink and you’ll never thirst again. Jesus promises that the moment we believe in Him we’re secure and the present participle, the one who believes, means “the believer.” And I’m a believer the moment I believe and I remain that way, even if I stop believing. 

Think, for example, of John the Baptist. He’s called ho baptizon in the New Testament, same thing. Present articular participle. Well, John hasn’t baptized anybody in 2,000 years, but he’s still John the Baptist, because once he baptized people, he became the baptizer. And that sticks with him forever, even if he never baptizes another person. In the same way, once we believe, we are secure forever. And so we are eternally secure if we believe in the promise of everlasting life. Our assurance needs to be based on Jesus’ promise, not on any kind of mystical revelation we think we’ve had that we’re going to persevere or something else. It’s just, Jesus said it, I believe it, that settles it. Well, very good, Liam, and all of us, let’s keep grace in focus. Amen. 

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On our next episode: how does one’s view of the gospel affect his view of discipleship? Please join us. And in the meantime, let’s keep grace in focus.