ANNOUNCER: The simple salvation message, all who believe are born again. Do all who believe receive this birth? What is the object of belief in order to receive the second birth? Let’s have a talk about it in the next few minutes here on Grace in Focus. Delighted you’re with us, friend. Grace in Focus is a ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society who are located in North Texas and our website is FaithAlone.org. There you can get information about our online seminary with full scholarships available for students maintaining good academic standing. And it’s available because of our gracious donors. If you want to be one of those you can find out how to do that on our website as well. It’s FaithAlone.org. 

And now with our question and answer discussion of the day, here is Bob Wilkin and Sam Marr. 

SAM: All right Bob, we’ve got a question from Ann. And so she heard you and Ken Yates talking about the importance of what to believe in, in order to have everlasting life. And so she asks how about those who believe that Jesus is God and that Jesus is the Savior, but not specifically in Him for everlasting life, are those people saved? It’s an important clarifying question and I think the most important part of this question is going to come down to the word Savior. When someone says, I believe Jesus is the Savior or is my Savior, that could be good enough, but it just depends on what they mean by Savior. 

BOB: I like that. Now let’s break out two parts of Ann’s question because you’re immediately going to the meatier part which I think we need to deal with. But the first part is what about someone who believes Jesus is God? If John 3.16 has three elements believing, in Jesus, for the guarantee that I’ll never perish, but I have everlasting life. So believing that Jesus is God, you can argue is the first two, but you don’t have the never perish or everlasting life there. It’s quite possible. In fact, I would say most people in Christianity believe Jesus is God, but do not believe that by faith in Him, they’re secure forever, right? 

SAM: Yeah. And people might not like to hear it, but with the three things you outlined, you have to understand on some level what all three of those mean because I could say, I believe in Jesus for everlasting life, but to me believe means I’m somewhat sure, but I’m not totally convinced. And Jesus is a good man who came to earth and did a lot of good things and died. And I don’t know if He came back to life or not, but you know, He taught some good things. And then everlasting life is something other than everlasting life, I guess. It’s a life that lasts as long as I believe in Him for it, is like how some people define it. 

BOB: There are people say everlasting life is like a commodity, right? Okay, you’ve got a water bottle, a Yeti water bottle there, right? Let’s say that’s an eternal water bottle. If you do something that disqualifies you from having that bottle anymore, the bottle is going to go on forever, but I may have it. God may take it from you and give it to me. And so that’s the way some people view eternal life. That’s wrong, but and you’re right, if a person views it that way, they don’t believe in the promise. 

I heard a pastor one time at a grace conference, of all things, and he had an evangelistic service at the end of the grace conference. It was like a four-day conference. And on Saturday night, he had this evangelistic message for people in the community. He had a prayer, a salvation prayer. And he said, if you’ve decided that you want Jesus to be your Savior, something like that, then pray after me. “Lord, I don’t understand everything I’ve heard tonight, but as best I understand, I’m putting my trust in Jesus Christ as my only hope of heaven.” Well, to say, I put my trust in Him as my only hope of heaven is a far cry from saying, I’m sure I will never perish and I have everlasting life. 

So you’re right. It really depends on what we mean by these words, but I would say in terms of Ann’s first part on believing Jesus is God, that is clearly insufficient because you could easily believe He’s God and not believe that by faith in His deity or secure forever. In fact, I would argue we don’t need to believe in the deity of Christ to be born again. And Ken and I have talked about that. And I think you and I have talked about that. A person could believe that Jesus was sent from God, that Jesus was God’s Messiah and that He had the authority to grant everlasting life to all who believed in Him, even though they didn’t yet believe He was deity. 

SAM: Right. And we know that from the disciples and even in the Old Testament, the writings about the coming Messiah don’t right, explicitly state that that was God in the flesh. 

BOB: Bring out a little bit more about the disciples. When did they believe Jesus was God? 

SAM: Well, we know times when they didn’t believe He was God, like when there was the storm on the sea and He stepped out and it seemed like Peter was starting to get it, but he you know, he took his eyes off Him. 

BOB: And then they say, “Who is this that even the wind and the rain obey Him?” But they don’t say that this is God in the boat with us. 

SAM: Yeah. And then they didn’t believe that He was going to be crucified and that He was going to die. Peter’s pretty adamant that wasn’t going to happen. And then after He did die, they doubted that He was going to rise again. And then even when He did rise again and people came and told them about it, they doubt until they saw Him for themselves. 

BOB: And there’s the perfect example, Thomas, John 20:27, when he sees Him for itself, he says, “My Lord and my God,” that’s the first time any of the disciples call Jesus God. And it seems that until He rose from the dead, none of them believe that He was deity. 

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BOB: On the Savior part, it’s a little stronger. If you believe that Jesus is the Savior, then the question is, okay, what does He save you from? I have a friend, one of the people from what we would call the “flexible free grace” camp. And he says, if you believe Jesus died on the cross for your sins and is the Savior. I think he uses the words, “the Savior,” then you’re born again. Well, in this view, if you believe that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole then you’re born again, even if you don’t believe that you get anything for that. In fact, he goes on to say, you don’t have to believe that you have everlasting life because that’s in his view, a sanctification principle. 

I would say it’s sadly possible to believe that Jesus is Savior of the whole world and not believe He saved me. And it’s also sadly possible to believe He has saved me temporarily. There’s a whole lot of people who would say, Jesus is my Savior and if I’m faithful to the end, I’ll stay safe. 

SAM: I think if you’re saying he’s my Savior and that means he’s already saved me, then that’s great because that means you believe that it’s been done and there’s nothing that can change it. But if you believe He could be my Savior, it’s conditioned on your works and your behavior, He’s already done. 

BOB: Okay, you could say He’s my Savior, He has saved me and there is something that could happen to change it, because Arminians believe, if you ask them, has Jesus saved you, wouldn’t they say yes? 

SAM: Yeah, so it’s all about what you mean. It’s not so much about the words that are said and words are extremely important and God gave us all the instruction we have through the written word, not through spoken word, but it still comes down to what do the words mean. 

BOB: But what I love, Ann, about your question is, could you see how this could easily lead to a productive conversation you would have with someone? If Ann is talking to a friend and the friend says, I believe Jesus is my Savior, Ann could go, wow, that’s great. What do you mean when you say he’s your Savior? And let’s say the person says, well, He saved me, Ann could go, that is great. And do you believe He saved you forever? Or do you believe that He saved you for now? 

And if the person goes, what do you mean? Ann could say, well, as you know, in Christianity, there’s two different views, some people believe at the moment I believe in Him, I’m saved forever, once saved always saved. But there are other people who believe that at the moment of faith, I’m saved for now, and I have to persevere to the end of my life in faith and good works. Which view is your view? And if the person goes, well, you know, obviously I’ve got to continue because bad people can’t go to heaven. So I’m saved for now, but I could lose it. 

Then, Ann might say, you know, I have a different view. I’m coming from in the perspective of “once saved always saved.” Have you ever considered John 3:16? And a friend could go, what do you mean? Of course, I’ve considered John 3:16. Well, what does Jesus say in John 3:16? “God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life,” and say, well do you believe that you have everlasting life? Yes. Can you lose it? Well, yes. Well, then, what does the “perish” part have to do with it? Well, it’s, we shouldn’t perish, but we might perish. Say, well, if that’s true, why does He say they have everlasting life? How could it be everlasting life if you could lose it? 

Some translations of John 3:16 say, should not perish? The reason it says should is because it’s in the subjunctive mood and the subjunctive, you have to meet a condition in order for that to be true. So the point is not, he might perish, but he shouldn’t. The point is, if you meet the condition of believing, then you will not perish. That’s why many translations translate will not perish. Same thing with having everlasting life. That’s conditioned on the believing. But once we believe we’re guaranteed, we’ll never perish. 

For example, John 6:35, he who comes to me will never hunger. He who believes me will never thirst. Very clear, very strong. 

This kind of conversation can easily lead the person to get it. And you could take him to other verses like John 6:47, “He who believes in Me has everlasting life,” or John 5:24, “has passed from death into life.” And I think if you’re talking to someone who believes that Jesus is God, bring out this issue of eternal life. If you believe he’s Savior, bring out the issue of the finality of the salvation, that because of His finished work, once we believe in Him, we’re secure forever. 

SAM: Yep, use John 3:16 because it’s such a simple verse that even a child can understand it. And because if you explain it to a child, everlasting life means something that lasts forever, never perish means I will never perish. Jesus is Jesus and believe is, I believe it’s true. You get tangled up in meanings of words the older you get. But I think it’s very easy for a child to understand. 

BOB: No, I agree. Well, thanks so much, Ann. And let’s all keep grace in focus. 

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