Transcript

ANNOUNCER: Today, a question about Abraham. When was Abraham born again? Was it in Genesis 15 or at some other time? Let’s talk about it here on Grace in Focus. Glad you’ve joined us today, friend. This is the broadcast and podcast ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society, a focused free grace organization. Look us up at faithalone.org. Get information about our free online seminary, our free magazine Grace in Focus, published six times per year, and about our upcoming national annual conference. This year’s theme will be “Believe in Jesus for Life” and discipleship. It’s held at Camp Copass in Denton, Texas, a beautiful and refreshing place, also refreshing as the fellowship of our group. We’d love you to join in. It is May 18th through the 21st, and you can get all the other information you need at faithalone.org. 

Now with today’s question and answer discussion, here’s Bob Wilkin, along with Ken Yates. 

KEN: We have a question about Abraham. 

BOB: Okay, who’s this from? 

KEN: This is from Hayden. He talks about in Genesis 15, and of course this is something that Paul discusses both in the book of Romans and in the book of Galatians. He quotes from Genesis 15 where it says that Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him as righteousness. And so if we say that this in Genesis 15 was where Abraham was justified, we would say received eternal life in Genesis 15. The question is, how was it then that he called upon the Lord in Genesis 12:8? And I’m going to read that verse. 

In Genesis 15, it says that “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him as righteousness,” that’s Genesis 15:6. But in Genesis 12:8, three chapters earlier, it says, “And he moved from there to the mountain east of Bethel, and he pitched his tent with Bethel on the west and Ai on the east. There he built an altar,” I guess we could add that into why was he also building an altar if he wasn’t a believer, “and called on the name of the Lord.” 

So Hayden is asking the question, well, if he wasn’t saved from the Lake of Fire and received eternal life until Genesis 15, why is he calling upon the Lord? And I guess we could also add, why was he building an altar. I just want to say that there are some good teachers that suggest that Abraham was saved in Genesis 12. And I don’t know if I’ve really talked about, with you Bob or not. I can’t remember if we’ve ever talked about this. Was he saved from the Lake of Fire in Genesis 12? And then in Genesis 15 it’s just what would we call a recapitulation? Is that what we would say? We would interpret it. Abraham had believed God, something like that. And if from what I understand, it’s something to do with the vav-consecutive in Hebrew that it could be translated, “Now he had believed in God and God had counted it as righteousness.” 

So it may be that Abraham was saved. And by the way, the arguments I’ve heard in Hebrews 11, it’s talking about the faithfulness of Abraham. And it refers to what happened in his life before Genesis 15. That’s part of the argument as I understand it, right? Because Hebrews 11 is talking about rewards. And it’s talking about Abraham leaving Ur of the Chaldees and traveling. Well, that’s before Genesis 15. And so if the author of Hebrews is saying that Abraham did this, looking for the reward, then that suggests that he was a believer at that time. 

BOB: Okay. So Paul sites Genesis 15:6 in Romans chapter four and verse three and also in Galatians three, I believe it’s verse six. And both of those to support his argument that justification is by faith alone, apart from works. And in Galatians 2:16, he said, “A man is justified by faith in Christ, not by works of the law, for by the works of law, no flesh shall be justified.” And three times, I didn’t quote the whole verse, but three times he says it’s by faith in Christ, justified by faith in Christ, three times he says it’s not by work. 

And so he uses Genesis 15:6 to support that. If Genesis 12, one to three is where Abraham came to faith, why doesn’t Paul cite that? Now, it is interesting, Ken, Galatians 3, I think it’s around verse eight, where he said that God preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham saying in you, all the nations of the earth shall be blessed. And that’s from Genesis 12, what verse is that? 

KEN: Galatians 3:8 says, “And the Scripture forseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand saying, in you, all the nations shall be blessed.” 

BOB: So that verse is cited, but it’s not cited to say that is justification by faith. It’s saying that’s what that verse meant, is that the worldwide blessing was going to be that not only Jews, but Gentiles could and would be justified by faith in Messiah, apart from works. 

KEN: Whether Abraham believed it in Genesis 12 or not. 

BOB: Right, and now John Niemela, a good friend of ours, is very strong on the fact that he’s convinced that Abraham was born again and justified in chapter 12, and that in chapter 15, this is looking back to Genesis 12. 

KEN: My brain is kind of fuzzy. You and I both had Alan Ross. Do you remember his view? Yeah, it seems like vaguely that he believed the same thing.

BOB: No, I think if I remember correctly that he would see the word vav is basically “and” here. And it can be either consecutive or it can be disjunctive. It could be something which is separating it out. And I think Ross’s view was he was born again or justified in 15, but you could be right. Maybe it was earlier. 

KEN: I don’t know. I can’t remember. 

BOB: And I’ve forgotten, but I did have him for Genesis in Hebrew, and it was a good class. I really enjoyed it. But here’s the point. If he was justified and born again in chapter 12, it’s odd that we don’t find that stated in the New Testament. What I would say is justification by faith, apart from works, is implicit in Genesis 12:1-3, but Abraham didn’t get it and believe it until Genesis 15:6. 

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KEN: How would you respond to the Hebrews 11 issue then? If this is talking about rewards, how could an unbeliever be doing things for rewards? 

BOB: Well, it seems to me he can do something that’s pleasing to God. And for example, think of Acts chapter 10 with Cornelius, because in the opening verses, the angel appears to him. And by the way, this blows the Calvinist view of total depravity out of the water. 

KEN: It sure does. Cornelius is something they got to stay away from. 

BOB: Yeah, because I mean, when the angel comes, he understands what he’s saying and he responds and sends for Simon Peter. But doesn’t he say there, “Your alms and prayers have ascended to God? 

KEN: It says that, “Cornelius was a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people,” talking about to the Jews, I think, “and prayed to God always.”  And it says in verse four that “his prayers and his alms have come up before God.” 

BOB: So here’s a person, and we know he wasn’t yet born again because in Acts 11:14, he was told by the angel that “Peter will tell you and your household words by which you must be saved.” So he didn’t, he wasn’t born again or saved until Peter evangelized him in Acts 10, especially 43, but the verses leading up to 43 as well. And that’s when they were born again. That’s when he came to faith. 

KEN: The whole house, by the way, it wasn’t just Cornelius, it was everyone listening.

BOB: Which would have included not only family members, but servants and probably some other soldiers too. 

KEN: And as a matter of fact, he sends a soldier to go get Peter and he’s also described in glowing terms, righteous. I don’t remember the exact word, but a righteous person like Cornelius. 

BOB: Yeah, I’ve not heard the question you asked about laying up rewards before you’re born again. That’s a good question. I need to give that more thought. So y’all pray about it, think about it. I will as well. 

KEN: Yes, one of our listeners, they could jump in here and if John Niemela is listening, he’s like, I told you.

BOB: Send me an email. But in my view, I would say, I don’t think we can lay up rewards before we’re born again, but I do think we can do things before we’re born again that please God and that those things can later influence the rewards we lay up and the opposite is also true. If before I come to faith in Christ, I hinder my brain or my body, that’s going to hinder how much I can serve Christ when I come to faith. 

So say someone does a lot of drugs, mess their mind up and then they later come to faith in Christ. Well, that’s great. They’re born again, but they’re not going to be as effective in serving Christ as they would have been if they hadn’t fried their brain. 

KEN: And by the way, here, what we’re talking about is, let’s just assume that, okay, he was not born again till Genesis 15. So let’s get to Hayden’s question. 

BOB: On calling on the Lord? 

KEN: How did he call upon Lord? The answer would be, very simply, an unbeliever can call upon the Lord. 

BOB: So what does it mean to call on the Lord? Doesn’t it mean to pray? 

KEN: Right. I mean— 

BOB: And in this case, it’s clear it also includes worship. 

KEN: Right. He built an altar. 

BOB: And he gave a sacrifice. He worshiped and worship by the way in the Bible is bowing down before God. It’s not singing worship praise hymns and everything. That can be part of it if I’m bowing down my inner self, but the key to worship is bowing down before the Lord. And so he called on the Lord in terms of prayer and worship. And any unbeliever can do that. 

KEN: By the way, you mentioned Cornelius. You know, he was calling upon the Lord. 

BOB: All the time.

KEN: He was calling upon the Lord and he was praying. It says your alms and the angel appears to him. 

BOB: And Lydia was at the place of prayer in Acts 16. She was part of this praying group. And yet she didn’t come to faith until Paul led her to faith in Christ. 

KEN: Most unbelievers, or at least many unbelievers, call upon the Lord before they’re saved. They’re seeking him. You know, Lord, if you’re out there, they’re not believers, but they say, reveal yourself to me. Show me the truth or something like that. 

BOB: If you have time, read to Hodges commentary on Romans, especially Romans 10, 9, 10, and 13. He argues that calling on the Lord there does not refer just to a one-time prayer, but it refers to a person who’s part of the worshiping community on a regular basis. Of course, this goes back to Joel 2:32, whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. And that is at the end of the Tribulation, there will be Jews who are part of the worshiping community, and they will be saved because they are part of the believing, worshiping community. 

KEN: And in Joel 2 and in Romans 10, those are believers, but an unbeliever can call upon the name of the Lord. 

BOB: Because they can be part. They can either worship or be part of the worshiping community. How many people went to church before they were born again? 

KEN: Absolutely, and I called upon him. So, great question, and until next time, keep grace in focus. 

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On our next episode: will confessed sins be judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ? Please join us again and until then, let’s keep grace in focus.