Transcript

ANNOUNCER: Welcome to Grace in Focus; we’re continuing our series on eschatology, and this episode is an introduction to the panoramic description, seals, trumpets, bowls of the Tribulation period, beginning in Revelation 6 with the opening of a scroll, sealed with seven seals. Thank you, friend, for joining us today. This is a ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society. Our website is faithalone.org, and we’d love you to go to our event section and see all the information you need to know about our annual national conference coming up in May, the 18th through the 21st, 2026. Our theme this year is “Believe in Jesus for Life.” Camp Copass is the place, it’s a beautiful camp right there on a lake with hotel accommodations, there will be great teaching, fellowship, and recreation, and we’d love you to take advantage of the early bird registration. Get all the information at faithalone.org. Oh, and while you’re there, take a look at our free online seminary as well. 

Now with today’s discussion, here are Bob Wilkin and Philippe Sterling. 

BOB: So Philippe, we’ve now come to the book of Revelation and the Tribulation in the book of Revelation, and a lot of people think it’s Revelation 4 through 19, but it’s really 6 through 19, isn’t it? 

PHILIPPE: Yes, the opening of the seals begins with chapter 6. 

BOB: Okay, why don’t we read Revelation 6:1 so we can see that, and we’re not talking about the seals that are on the beach and they’re clapping, right? This is like the seal that a monarch would put on on a letter or decree or something, like a wax seal, and in this case, you’ve got these various scrolls that are sealed and they need to each be opened. 

PHILIPPE: In this case, it would be one scroll, that there are seven seals associated with this one scroll that is given by God, the Father to the Lamb.

BOB: And the Lamb is the one who has the ability to open the seals. 

PHILIPPE: Yes, the only one who can. Initially, you know, John thought there was no one there that qualified to open there. 

BOB: So you’ve got this big scroll, and within it, there’s one seal followed by another seal, another, another, another. So let’s read 6:1. 

PHILIPPE: “Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals; and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, ‘Come and see.'”

BOB: Now what’s interesting about come and see is that occurs in John chapter 1, when two of the disciples of John the Baptist come over to Jesus, and He says, “Come and see,” and now we have the same thing here, “Come and see,’ but it’s the Lord Jesus is the one who has the authority. So Revelation 4 or 5 are basically an overview or an introduction to the Tribulation, but it really begins—

PHILIPPE: But it’s a scene that’s in heaven. 

BOB: It’s a scene in heaven. 

PHILIPPE: And then the authority to pour forth His wrath and to reclaim His rule over all creation over the earth begins with the Father giving the seven sealed scrolls to the Lamb. 

BOB: All right, so now you’re hitting another issue, which is this already not-yet theology. There’s a lot of theologians today that say, Jesus is already reigning, and Jesus is not yet reigning. He’s already on the throne of David, but he’s not on the throne of David. 

PHILIPPE: Progressive dispensationalism. 

BOB: But also that’s other people hold that view too. Like, you know, the millennial view, the historic— 

PHILIPPE: Historic premillenialism.

BOB: They hold that view also. And I remember we had Stan Toussaint speak at our conference about 10, 12 years ago, and he said, “The kingdom is not now, and the kingdom is not now.” Not yet, not now. You can’t say it’s already here and not yet. That’s a logical contradiction. So it’s not going to begin until after these judgments. Now there’s three series of judgments between Revelation 6 and Revelation 19. The first are the seals, right? And there are seven seals.

PHILIPPE: Yeah, seven seals, but the seventh seal is the seven trumpets, and the seventh trumpet is the seven bowls. 

BOB: Okay, so you’ve got seals followed by trumpets, followed by bowls, and they get progressively worse, right? In other words, the sealed judgments as bad as they are, aren’t as bad as the trumpet judgments, and those aren’t as bad as the bowl judgments. Now, is everyone listening? How are you all going to remember seals, trumpets, bowls? I mean, I know it starts with seals, but I always get confused as it go from seals. The bowls are seals to trumpets. There’s an easy way, several easy ways to remember this. One would be remembering my name and Philippe’s name. Philippe’s last name is Sterling, and Sterling starts with ST. Sterling would be seals, trumpets, and my name, first name is Bob, so seals, trumpets, bowls. 

PHILIPPE: So since we’re talking, so Sterling, Bob, ST short for Sterling. 

BOB: Sterling, and then the B for the bowls. Another way to remember it, if you like, I remember what was the form of basketball player, Jerry, I can’t remember his last name.

PHILIPPE: Oh, yes, I had all those mnemonic devices where you picture.

BOB: Yeah, mnemonic, not demonic, mnemonic. Anyway, he would say you have a picture. 

PHILIPPE: Jerry Lucas? 

BOB: It was Jerry Lucas. 

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BOB: Anyway, imagine this. Imagine a seal, you know, one of those sea animals that claps. Imagine a seal that’s blowing a trumpet. So it’s seal trumpet and out of the trumpet, instead of sound coming out, there are bowls popping out of the trumpet. So it goes a seal that’s blowing a trumpet and out of the trumpet comes the bowls, seals trumpet bowls. So let’s talk a bit then about these three groups. And you’re saying the seventh seal is actually the—

PHILIPPE: Introduces a seven trumpets. 

BOB: And then the seventh trumpet introduces 

PHILIPPE: Seven bowls. 

BOB: And the last bowl is so devastating that if Jesus did not return that exact moment, mankind, probably within hours, certainly days, mankind would have been annihilated.

PHILIPPE: Right. In fact we come to the description in Revelation concerning that seventh bowl judgment. Just about every mountain is flattened, every valley is raised up, there’s hail coming down, each hail stone weighs a talent, 75 pounds plus. 

BOB: They’re bigger than a volleyball, bigger than a basketball, probably bigger than a beach ball to base weigh 75 pounds. So you got these huge hail stones hitting. And I used to think the reason that that was the case was because Israel has nuclear weapons and Israel could release those. But basically, what this is saying is God’s judgments are so severe that God’s going to destroy the whole planet. Now, what does Matthew 24:22 say? 

PHILIPPE: It says that, but if this had not been shortened, no flesh shall remain alive. 

BOB: Yeah, or would be saved, it uses the word “saved.” And so no one would survive, as you say, but for the elect’s sake, those days were shortened. The elect there, contra  the Calvinist, does not refer to the Church. The elect refers to Israel there as the chosen people. 

PHILIPPE: Yes, who will then go into the millennial kingdom. 

BOB: You have to have Jews that go into the millennial kingdom in natural bodies in order for the nation of Israel to grow and ultimately become what was promised to Abraham, which was a nation that has more people than, well, it’s comparable to the sands of the seashore, the stars of the sky. And the same thing with the Gentile nations, there have to be Gentiles coming out of the Tribulation. And I would argue that it’s the children who come out, Gentile children are not going to be destroyed. They will go into the Millennium as well as all of the Jewish children. Whether the the Jewish believing adults go into the kingdom in natural or glorified bodies is a different question. So let’s talk about the seals, trumpets, bowls. 

PHILIPPE: The seals will begin there. Revelation chapter six talks about the four horsemen, they’re usually called the four horsemen of the apocalypse. But that’s a description of the one on the white horse that goes out to conquer and then the others that’s death, and famine and all. But generally describing what’s going to be occurring throughout all the judgments. 

BOB: Okay, so the judge and the white horse rider could either refer to Jesus or it could refer to the man of sin, the beast. And it’s popular for people to take that to refer to the beast or the man of sin. 

PHILIPPE: That’s a predominant view among dispensational pre-millennialists, that it refers to the beast. But I think Hodges held that it is Christ and the comparison is to the white horse that He rides in Revelation to come. 

BOB: Yeah, and I think Claeys takes that same view in his commentary. And that is my view at this point, although, you know, we don’t have clear statements here. So you’ve got this white horse rider and they’re going out and they’re of the apocalypse and they’re causing all kinds of havoc on earth, right? 

PHILIPPE: Yes. It says death and Hades and all is associated with the other horses. Ashen horse, the red horse and all, the one represents war and the famine and the beast and everything and all. But then we come through the fifth seal and that’s a scene in heaven, really the souls under the altar. And that or there, that all emerged, those are the martyrs of the Tribulation period who asked the Lord how long before you avenge our death and it’s just hold on a little longer. It’s all going to happen very quickly during that 70th week. And then there’s a sealing of the 144,000 and then the vast multitude of tribe and nations. 

BOB: So the 144,000 are Jews. 12,000 from each tribe. And they’re probably evangelists. Most dispensationalist think they’ll go around the planet telling people about Jesus and the coming kingdom. 

PHILIPPE: Right. And that’s where Israel in essence will fulfill its mandate to be a light unto the nations and out of their influence, It’s the kind of a cause and effect that we see there’s then all of this multitude that come out of the Tribulation that are there worshipping the Lamb from every tribe and nation. 

BOB: And remember that Jesus had said before the kingdom comes, the good news of the kingdom, the gospel of the kingdom is going to go forth to everyone. And a lot of people thought that was referring to the first century or maybe that’s referring to us. I remember when we were on staff with Campus Crusade for Christ, we were going to win the world for Christ. 

PHILIPPE: Fulfilled the great commission in our generation. 

BOB: But the thing is that’s actually referring to the Tribulation. The good news of the kingdom is going to go all over the planet from these 144,000. Well, Philippe, we’re out of time again. How does this happen? We haven’t gotten to the guy that plays the trumpet. They’re really good trumpeter. I can’t remember his name. 

PHILIPPE: Louis Armstrong. 

BOB: We haven’t even gotten to Louis Armstrong yet. We’re still in the seals. 

PHILIPPE: Louis is not a seal. 

BOB: He’s not a seal. And there’s also Navy seals, but that’s another subject. That’s one of my puns. You know, y’all don’t laugh. You’re driving. 

All right. Well, thanks so much. And we’ll come back to talking about the rest of the seals and then the bowls and the trumpets. And in the meantime, let’s keep grace in focus. 

ANNOUNCER: Be sure to check out our daily blogs at faithalone.org. They are short and full of great teaching, just like what you’ve heard today. Find them at faithalone.org/resources/blog. We would like to thank all of our financial partners who help us keep this show going. All gifts are tax deductible and very much appreciated. If you’d like to find out how you can be a financial partner, visit us at faithalone.org.

On our next episode: we continue with eschatology—the first four seal judgments and the four horsemen. Please join us. And in the meantime, let’s keep grace in focus.