Transcript

ANNOUNCER: In Luke chapter 15, we find three parables about lost items. What do these lost items represent? What is the condition of the representative items in regard to regeneration? Hello, friend. Welcome to Grace in Focus. We’re glad you’re with us today. This is the radio broadcast and podcast ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society. We come to you each weekday and you can find out more about us at our website, faithalone.org. We’d also love you to go to our YouTube channel that is YouTube Grace Evangelical Society. View our short videos which we release weekly, subscribe and like and anything else you want to do. Once again our channel, YouTube Grace Evangelical Society. And once more for our website, faithalone.org. 

And now with the continuation of our tough texts series, here are Bob Wilkin and Ken Yates. 

KEN: We are doing a series on problem passages or tough texts. We’ve been following your book that you did with Zane on tough texts and we’re at the last one.

BOB: From the book. And then we are also going to do a series from your class. From the seminary. Because you have a class on the same title. 

KEN: Right and I cover some other passages. There is some overlap but then there’s also some differences. But in the book that GES publishes, this is the 14th text that you and Zane talked about. And in Luke 15, there are three parables. 

BOB: And this is called the Great Repentance chapter. Because all three are looking at repentance. And there’s three lost things or people. What are the three lost things? 

KEN: Well, you have a lost sheep. 

BOB: In the first one. 

KEN: And then a lost coin. 

BOB: In the second one. 

KEN: And then you have a lost son. 

BOB: In the third one, which is often called the parable of the prodigal son. But it’s also the parable of the lost son. 

KEN: Right. And so the question here is does the lost sheep, the lost coin, and the lost son represent unbelievers? 

BOB: Or do they represent believers who have strayed? 

KEN: And most people, and this is why it’s in the tough text category, I think it’s safe to say that most people see this as addressed to unbelievers or talking about unbelievers.

BOB: Right. Of course, most people think that the condition of being saved forever, of everlasting life, is both repentance and faith. Now, they may have more conditions, but at least repentance and faith. And most people don’t think repentance is faith. 

KEN: The other issue here is I think when we use the word “lost’, I mean, even the way we’re talking. You know, the lost sheep, the shepherd says, I found my sheep that was lost. Or the father saying, my son who was lost is now found. We use the word, as evangelicals, “lost” to refer to unbelievers. 

BOB: And I wrote a book called The Ten Most Misunderstood Words in the Bible, and one of the chapters is on “lost”. And the Greek word translated lost from this passage is the verb apollymi. It’s also the word translated “perish” in other passages. And I point out in my chapter on lost that 90% of the time, it refers to someone who is wandering, someone who has lost their way, someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing. You know, someone who has died physically, someone who is undergoing destruction, because apollymi can refer to destruction, calamity in this life. Only 10% of the time does it refer to eternal condemnation, like it does in John 3:16. But because of John 3:16, a lot of people think apollymi always refers to eternal condemnation, and that’s not the case. 

KEN: And so what Bob and I are going to encourage, is to look at these, and even though traditionally there’s a strong tradition, you know, that says, there’s rejoicing in heaven when this sheep is found, that this is talking about when a person comes to faith, but we’re going to argue that no, that’s not what the context is talking about, not what the word “lost” means. And we certainly know that repentance is not necessary to be saved from the lake of fire. 

BOB: And one way we know it is because the gospel in John doesn’t use the words repent or repentance even once. 

KEN: That’s right. When Jesus talks to the woman at the well, he doesn’t tell her to repent. When he talks to Nicodemus in John 3, he doesn’t tell him to repent. When he talks to the unbelievers in John 5, he doesn’t tell them to repent. When Paul talks to the Philippian jailer, he doesn’t say repent and believe in you. 

BOB: And when Paul defends his gospel and Galatians, guess how many times you mentioned his repentance? 

KEN: I’m guessing zero. 

BOB: That would be a correct guess. You win $20,000 on Jeopardy. Okay, so let’s go over this briefly. The first one is the lost sheep. There’s a man, he has a hundred sheep, and all hundred are in the fold. And then he loses one. It’s not like he’s got 99 and the hundredth one he never had. He had all hundred. 

KEN: Right there, so they’re his. 

BOB: And then it says he loses one of them. And then he goes and finds it and he brings it back. And what does that illustrate? Well, he explains it at the end. He says, “I say to you likewise, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over 99 just persons who need no repentance.” Well, remember at the beginning, there were a hundred just persons who needed no repentance. “Just” here doesn’t mean just in their position, it means just in their experience. They were righteous people. Now, the way most people interpret verse seven is exactly the opposite of what Jesus said. What would the opposite of this mean? 

KEN: Well, the opposite would be that the one that was lost was never righteous. 

BOB: And the other 99 never were either. Because the way that verse seven is normally explained is, 99 persons who thought they were just and thought they didn’t need repentance. 

KEN: Right, so we have these hundred people who—

BOB: All were unsaved. And then one of them wanders off and he’s saved because he comes back. But to say that the 99 actually needed repentance when the Lord says they didn’t need repentance is nuts. 

ANNOUNCER: Just jumping in here to make you aware of our magazine, Grace in Focus. It is a bi-monthly six issues per year, 48 page magazine, full color. And we want you to subscribe by emailing your name and your snail mail address to ges@faithalone.org. The subscription is free. It can be accessed electronically or it can be actually physically sent to you if you live in the lower 48 United States. That’s our Grace in Focus magazine, send your name and snail mail address to ges@faithalone.org.

BOB: Then the second one is the woman with this heirloom, which was a bracelet that had 10 coins on it. One of the coins is lost. 

KEN: Well, obviously it’s very valuable. I’ve heard it suggested this may have been a dowry of hers. 

BOB: Probably passed down from mother to daughter for generations. So she sweeps out the house and she finds the coin. And then in verse 10, “Likewise I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” Well notice both in verse seven and in verse 10 it talks about a sinner who repents. A lot of people say, well, believers aren’t sinners. So this can’t refer to them. No, actually believers are called sinners repeatedly in Scripture. The fact that someone has strayed calls them a sinner. 

And there were sometimes in Judaism, a sinner was a person like a tax collector or a harlot. Someone who is in rebellion against God, they weren’t saying everybody didn’t sin. They were saying this is a notorious sinner. And that’s pretty much what this means. And by the way, that 10th coin was part of the bracelet before it strayed off.

KEN: That’s right, it was a coin before it got lost. 

BOB: It didn’t become a coin after it was found. 

KEN: You could think of, for example, a ring that has diamonds in it and one comes out of the setting or whatever. Well, it was a diamond. 

BOB: And the sheep was part of the sheep fold. And now the third one is the son. Okay, there’s two sons. One of them gets his inheritance early, goes to spiritual Las Vegas, blows it all, famine occurs, realizes things are much better back home and he determines to go home. And when he gets home, he finds that his father welcomes him home. The word repentance doesn’t actually occur in the third parable. But where it basically occurs is verse 17, “when he came to himself”, and this coming to himself is his repentance. He determined at that point to go home. 

KEN: He determined that sleeping with the pigs and in the mud and eating their food was not a wise choice. 

BOB: Exactly. And he said, I’m going to go home and just be a servant at home. And his dad says, no, no, you’re back in your son status. And so he gives him the ring, the robe, the sandals, the fatted calf and everything else. What’s interesting, the father, when he says this, he says, verse 24, “For this my son was dead and is alive again.” That doesn’t refer to born again again, death and life here. And you talked about how death and life are both some of the words that are misunderstood. Death here means spiritually out of fellowship with him, with the father. 

KEN: Because he wasn’t literally dead, and he wasn’t literally not his son. He was always his son, even in the far country. So in what sense was he dead? 

BOB: He was dead to him in terms of fellowship. It’s just like, if you’ve ever watched Shark Tank, Mr. Wonderful loves to say, if he doesn’t like one of the people, “you’re dead to me”. 

KEN: Does he really? 

BOB: Yeah. And “dead to me” is kind of a Jewish thing where people will say, you know, I’m not having to do with you anyway. Now he says it in a funny way, but still, the point is he was dead and is alive again means he’s back in fellowship with me. 

KEN: Right. Before he was out of fellowship. Now he’s sitting down eating with the father, with the fatted calf and the party and all that’s going on in the house. 

BOB: And then it ends with the older son getting mad, because he’s like, why are you throwing a party for him? The father moves him back and says, you need to come back. And the point there is, if a believer strays from our local church, and then they come back and the elders decide this person has genuinely repented, and we welcome them back into the fellowship and have a party for them, we should all be there. We shouldn’t be upset that the person is being welcomed back, right? We should rejoice. 

KEN: I think the older brother is very interesting, because when people talk about this parable, he’s often neglected. Well, you don’t hear people talk about the older brother. For example, they’re real quick to say, well, the younger brother wasn’t saved. When he was eating with the pigs and everything. What about the older brother? 

BOB: I once heard Dr. John MacArthur speak on this, and he said, the parable doesn’t tell us what happened after this, but what I think happened is the older son picked up a log and beat his father to death.

KEN: Did he really? 

BOB: That’s what he said. He said, this is what the legalist does, and he viewed the elder son as an unbeliever. But of course, the elder son was a son the whole time. And he illustrates, I think, a believer who is in danger of losing his fellowship with God, if he doesn’t—

KEN: Sure, he’s unmerciful. 

BOB: He needs to get his mind in order. 

KEN: Right. He’s not in fellowship with the father either. 

BOB: Yeah. Remember the song, Tie a Yellow Ribbon ‘Round the Old Oak Tree? Do you remember what that was about? 

KEN: Yeah. A guy getting out of prison and coming back, and whether his ex-wife or girlfriend would want him back. 

BOB: And every tree in the town had a yellow ribbon on it, and I hear that song, and I cry, and there have been pastors tell stories about that, of modern examples of that. But the truth is, the reason we’re all moved by such a story is that’s who God is. But the issue isn’t we’re getting saved again. The issue is we’re back in fellowship with Him, and we’re fully back in fellowship. We’re not on some kind of provisional status. 

KEN: And I know that what Bob and I are saying, for a lot of people, is so much different than what they heard, but anybody can look at these three parables and see that this is not talking about people who aren’t sons, who aren’t coins, who aren’t sheep. These are believers here. We’re out of fellowship. 

BOB: Absolutely. 

KEN: Well, great discussion, Bob. We appreciate it. And remember everybody, keep grace in focus. 

ANNOUNCER: Be sure to check out our daily blogs at faithalone.org. They are short and full of great teaching, just like what you’ve heard today. Find them at faithalone.org/resources/blog. We would like to thank all of our financial partners who help us keep this show going. All gifts are tax deductible and very much appreciated. If you’d like to find out how you can be a financial partner, visit us at faithalone.org. 

On our next episode: Looking at Romans 10:9-10, do we need to confess Christ as Lord to be saved? Join us then. We’ll look for you until then. Let’s continue to keep grace in focus.