Transcript

ANNOUNCER: If you’re in a Bible study group and someone else misuses scripture, how can we stay out of the controversial weeds but yet confront the essential things? How do we decide what is essential? This is Grace in Focus and thank you, friend, for joining us today. Grace in Focus is the radio broadcast and podcast ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society. We’re located in North Texas. We have a website, faithalone.org. There you can peruse our articles. We have hundreds of them there. Use them for reading, research and study. And we also have our regional conferences there for you, our magazine, our seminary and our bookstore, where you can find Bob Wilkin’s most recent book, The Gospel is Still Under Siege. We would love to have you visit us at faithalone.org. 

Now with today’s question and answer discussion, here are Ken Yates and Kathryn Wright. 

KEN: We are going to be asking a great question. 

KATHRYN: I’m not. 

KEN: What’s that? 

KATHRYN: We’re not asking. 

KEN: Well, we’re going to be answering. We’re hopefully answering a question. 

KATHRYN: A great question. 

KEN: Great question. And the reason why we think it’s a great question, hopefully you do as well, is because this is a problem that we have encountered many, many, many times. 

KATHRYN: Even doing this podcast. We’ve encountered this problem. 

KEN: That’s right. And it comes from John, and I’m going to summarize the question. Basically, the question is, what do you do when you hear someone misuse the Scriptures? And you don’t address it. Should you feel guilty about that? How do you do that? Or how do we feel about it? Obviously, if you get ten Bible teachers, they’re going to give you ten different answers, or maybe our 11 or 12 different answers. But it depends. When you answer this question, just our experience, what do you do? 

KATHRYN: There’s a lot of variables. 

KEN: A lot of variables. One variable is time. How much time do you have with this person? And one of the issues we’ve come up in this area is, like, for example, what if you’re doing a class? And let’s say the class is on Romans. And you want to teach the book of Romans, and somebody brings up a verse from another book. And they quote it, and they misuse it. And you know they misuse it. They misuse it in the class. Do you take the rest of the class to teach on that verse? If it’s going to take a while, or do you say, no, no, no. We’re here to learn Romans. 

KATHRYN: Or another scenario. I’ve certainly been in, and I know you as well. When we are on a missions trip, and we are speaking to a group of people, and we literally only have maybe one day with them, one session. And we don’t know if they’re even believers. And so we want to make sure that on this trip, as we are encountering this group of people, we’re going to share the saving message. But then we’ll be asked about maybe spiritual gifting, or speaking in tongues, or something like that. Do we want to spend the rest of the hour we have talking about that? Or do we want to talk about the message of eternal life, and the fact that you can’t lose it? Because in many cases, that’s the issue that we’re facing primarily. So do we want to spend the entire time talking about tongues? Or, you know, I mean, a million things that it could be, or do we want to spend that time really focusing on the saving message? 

KEN: Yeah, that’s a great point too, because what if they bring up, even not just the charismatic stuff? What if they bring up a tough text? 

KATHRYN: Right. Yeah, I just used that as an example. 

KEN: And you know that if you deal with a tough text, number one is going to take a while. And then number two, they’re going to be, so—you’re going to make people upset. 

KATHRYN: Yeah, they’re controversial topics. They are tough texts for a reason, and so there’s going to be a lot of confusion, anything like that, sanctification topics. And it could go from, I mean, I use the tongues, but it could be a tough text. It could be women’s roles in the church. I mean, there’s so many things that people will want to talk about, and when you only have a very short amount of time, you have to pick your battles, that’s basically what we’re saying. 

KEN: And I know Kathryn and I agree on this as well, but we were in another country, and they talked about the flat earth. And I mean, we were there to talk about free grace and rewards, but someone asked, what about the flat earth? And I mean, that could have taken literally the rest of the conference. Because in that particular country, this was a really, really, really big issue. 

KATHRYN: And I think it should be stated that we have thoughts. We could do that. We could spend a whole conference on the flat earth issue or the creation issues or charismatic issues, but those are discipleship, sanctification topics. And if you are specifically trying to share the message of grace to unbelievers, then it is our recommendation, you stick to the saving message. Don’t get into the controversial weeds because that will be a distraction. 

KEN: Yeah. And I would also say Bob Wilkin, who’s the jefe or the boss of GES, he’s told how he came to faith on a number of occasions that the guy who was talking to him about the gospel of grace kept going to Ephesians 2:8-9, and Bob, who had grown up in a Christian cult, was bringing up all these verses. What about this? What about this? What about this? And the guy kept saying, look, I’m not really sure what that means or whatever that means, we know it doesn’t violate Ephesians 2:8-9. That’s basically what we’re saying here. 

ANNOUNCER: Did you know that the Grace Evangelical Society profers an Mdiv degree through our online seminary and tuition is free to those who maintain a 3.0 grade average? It is a three-year degree program and you could submit your application now to gain acceptance. Then stay apprised of our registration periods for upcoming semester terms. Program and application details can be found at GESSeminary.org. Have a look at our Mdiv degree. Become an approved workman. Find out how GESSeminary.org. 

KATHRYN: I remember we did a regional conference with GES did. I think it was in Dallas a few years back on how to evangelize and I remember there was a session that a certain Ken Yates did. The title was something like “Don’t Get in the Weeds”. You can listen to it on our YouTube channel. That was the whole point—that an evangelism specifically is very tempting to get into theological weeds to get into the debates because we do know the answers. It can be kind of maybe a point of pride and fleshly like, oh yeah, I can—let’s debate that flat earth topic. 

KEN: Let me show you why. If it’s a tough text, like if it’s James 2. There is a cavern you can fall into. And it will take you days. I mean, you can literally go through each verse to show how the standard way of understanding that chapter is so unbiblical. 

KATHRYN: Right. But that unbeliever is going to walk away still not understanding eternal life, that it’s a free gift by faith alone. 

KEN: And your explanation of James 2 is going to sound so strange. I mean, he might walk away saying, wow, that’s really interesting about James 2, but he’s just as lucky to walk away saying, man, if he says that about James 2, I can’t listen to him, but for anything. 

KATHRYN: And so the point being don’t get lost in the weeds. Be singularly focused on the message of life when speaking to unbelievers and don’t feel guilty after the fact ,to John’s question, if you didn’t address the whole Bible, you know, you can’t. 

KEN: Well, but John brings up another point though. And we felt this way. I know I’ll speak for me. I know I felt this way when someone will bring up a verse and you don’t have time to mess with it. Do you leave them thinking that you agreed with their misuse of that verse? 

For example, take one example, Romans 8:1, “There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.” People will quote that verse and say, well, that’s talking about my eternal salvation. And you know it’s not. Zane Hodges’ great commentary on Romans says that the condemnation there is defined by the next phrase, those who walk by the Spirit are not walking in slavery to sin. That’s what that means. But if someone brings that up, and it’s very common that they’ll do that particular verse, and you just go, yeah, well, let’s let’s go back here. It’s like you’re agreeing with them. And that’s part of John’s question. 

And so should we say something like, and I do this sometimes, not all the time, to go to John’s question, say something like, “Well, you know, there’s another way of understanding that, but let’s go over here.”

KATHRYN: But we’ve got to stick to topic. 

KEN: Let’s get back to what we were discussing.

KATHRYN: And maybe if we have time later, we can talk about it or, you know, privately, if you want to come up to me, I have done that. If I’m in a setting and they’re asking a question, it’s not on topic. I’ll just say, you know what, that’s a really great question. Why don’t we talk about that privately? If we’re in a group setting, for example, or after class or, yeah, we can talk about it. Or like you said, just a quick, that’s a complicated issue. You know, that’s that’s the meat over there. And we don’t have time for it in this class, but we can maybe address it at a later date. We’ll circle back. 

KEN: We’ll circle back. 

KATHRYN: We’ll circle back. Yeah. I mean, there’s a different ways. I do think basically, as we’re talking, it sounds like one variable is, are you speaking to an unbeliever versus a believer?  One variable is, how much time do you have? Another variable is, are you in a group setting versus an individual setting? And then I do think that when you’re speaking to believers and you’re talking about some of the sanctification issues and for passages, it is really easy to get all fractured and go into different places. 

But I also think that as teachers, it’s acknowledging that I think of the author of Hebrews, who when he speaks about the fact that there’s much that he wants to tell his readers, but he can’t because they’re dull of hearing. 

KEN: About Melchizedek. And he brings up Melchizedek.

KATHRYN: And he says there’s much I want to tell you, but it’s hard to explain since you’re dull of hearing. There are things that they’re meat of the Word. And you, as a teacher, have to sometimes meet your students where they’re at. Do your best to bring them, you know, to things at an appropriate pace. And it’s not from a lack of trying on your part, but it’s just, you can’t teach algebra to a five-year-old. 

KEN: Well, yeah, that’s a—I think that’s a good analogy, I was just thinking of it. You know, when kids are learning math and they come up with something and they bring up something that might have something to do with—it’s been so long since I’ve had a math class. I can’t even think of the different phrases. But, you know, do you bring that up? 

KATHRYN: Fractions. 

KEN: Do you bring that up? Yeah, like, prime numbers or… 

KATHRYN: It’s, I think of it. I’ve heard it this way as well that, you know, truth, knowledge is like a light. And if you wake somebody up and you put a flashlight in their eyes, they can’t see anything. They can’t process it. And so we have to, yeah, we have to meet people where they’re at and we have to, you know, teach them things at an appropriate pace. And that doesn’t mean that you are not serving them properly when you are meeting them where they’re at. 

KEN: Yeah. And again, the question is, what do you do? Do you want them to walk away thinking you agree with their misuse? That’s the hard part. You just say, look, there’s another way to see that. And that’s all the time you have and just move on. And don’t feel guilty about it.

KEN: So, well, that was a great question, John. And we hope that helps. Until we meet again, remember, keep grace in focus. 

ANNOUNCER: Be sure to check out our daily blogs at faithalone.org. They are short and full of great teaching, just like what you’ve heard today. Find them at faithalone.org/resources/blog. We would love to hear from you. Maybe you’ve got a question, comment, or some feedback. If you do, please don’t hesitate to send us a message. Here’s our email address. It’s radio@faithalone.org. That’s radio@faithalone.org. And when you do, very important. Please let us know your radio station call letters and the city of your location.

And on our next episode: How do you get motivated to follow Jesus? What’s the best way? Let’s talk about it next time and until then, let’s keep grace in focus.