Transcript

ANNOUNCER: This is Grace in Focus continuing yesterday’s topic, Bob Wilkin and Philippe Sterling are going to be discussing some of the lessons they learned while they served with Campus Crusade for Christ, and especially lessons learned while sharing the gospel with others. Thank you for joining us. This is Grace in Focus. It is a ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society. You can learn more about the Grace Evangelical Society and our website, faithalone.org. We have a magazine also called Grace in Focus. We’d like to offer that to you for free. It is published six times a year. It is a full-length magazine, full color, and great articles. And yes, it is free. All except if you live outside of the 48 contiguous United States, you do have to pay the postage. Other than that, absolutely free. Find out more, get subscribed at faithalone.org. 

Now our hosts for today, Bob Wilkin and Philippe Sterling. 

BOB: Well, last time Philippe, we were talking about how we came to faith in Christ through Cru or Campus Crusade for Christ and how we initially grew in our faith. This time, let’s talk about what we learned, what were key lessons we learned, and let’s start with some really positive things we learned through Campus Crusade or Cru. 

PHILIPPE: Well, the very positive things would be one that’s strong focus on fellowship, as well as the sharing of the good news concerning Christ and then following up with new believers, helping them be on a path of Christian growth. And certainly that’s what happened to me. Encouragement on reading the Scriptures and trying to understand and to apply to my life and helping others do the same. So for me, those were really great benefits that contributed to my maturity in every way. And ultimately, it was also in that setting because of the strong emphasis on community and everything that I eventually met the woman that will become my wife. It was in there. 

BOB: You met Brenda through Crusade. 

PHILIPPE: Yeah, in fact, she was a transfer student to Radford University, a school that was 20 miles away from Virginia Tech. 

BOB: Isn’t that a foo-foo school? Some fancy almost Ivy League, isn’t it? 

PHILIPPE: No, no. It was more of a teacher’s college initially, but not anything like William and Mary and just going back to the pilgrims. But, Brenda was a transfer student, but she came in to one of the college life meetings there and I just briefly met her there and she introduced herself and everything. And the next week when she came back, I went up to her and greeted her by name. Said, “Hi Brenda,” and she just looked at me, wide-eyed and said, “You remembered my name!” And that set us basically on the path, you know, eventually to dating and to engagement and to marriage. So again, a lot of the students that I knew, eventually married people that were involved in the Campus Crusade ministry. 

BOB: So the two of you went on staff together. 

PHILIPPE: Yes. 

BOB: So she had to join staff when you joined. 

PHILIPPE: Yes. We both joined together and went to staff training, actually at Arrowhead Springs and in San Bernardino, California. 

BOB: Yeah, I’m very familiar with that, yeah. 

PHILIPPE: And did the Institute of Biblical Studies there. Two of the classes I really enjoyed was a survey of the Old Testament and a survey of the New Testament. 

BOB: Who taught those courses? 

PHILIPPE: Ted Martin taught the New Testament survey. 

BOB: I remember Ted, Dr. Ted Martin, yeah. 

PHILIPPE: He was a DTS. 

BOB: What about Josh McDowell, was he there when you were there? 

PHILIPPE: Well, Josh was on staff there, but he, I met Josh on a number of occasions because of the campus meetings that I will come to do. And one time actually I picked him up from the airport and took him to the airport afterwards. Just really engaged with him in conversation. But just a whole focus on Christian growth on Christian ministry and in a setting where people really would develop friendships and some leading, you know, to marriage and everything. Those are great things for me. It was the Campus Crusade experience in essence. 

BOB: Super. Well, I’ve got a few of my own. Most of the things I learned, and I bet a lot of this was true of you as well, was not necessarily because the person who was discipling me sat me down and said, this is important. You need to learn this. But I basically learned it by doing. For example, don’t invite Jesus into your heart. I remember at the very beginning, even though I wasn’t led to faith in Christ by inviting Jesus into my heart, I was taught to use the four spiritual laws booklet, right? I was taught read through it and just read what the book says, do what the booklet says. And I did that for a short while. 

And I remember one gal who was in—a fellow senior in—I was also a biology major. And she was Catholic. And I read through the four laws booklet with her. And I asked her if she wanted to receive Christ, pray to receive Christ. And she was like, “Wait a minute, why would I do that?” And I said, “What do you mean?” She said, “I receive Jesus into my heart every time I take communion. Literally, he comes into me. I take his flesh. As I take the wafer, I’m receiving Christ every time.” Well, I didn’t have a good answer for her. But what I stopped doing was telling people to pray to receive Christ. And there were a number of things like that. For example, another thing is there’s a line in the four spiritual laws prayer about repenting. 

ANNOUNCER: The Grace Evangelical Society Seminary, GESSeminary, is getting ready for the 2025 fall semester. All classes are online. And we are now ready to receive your application. GESSeminary.org is where you apply. And if you want to begin studying this fall, we must receive your application by July 29th. That’s GESSeminary.org. Classroom size is limited. So let us hear from you soon. Apply now. GESSeminary.org. 

BOB: Another thing is there’s a line in the four spiritual laws prayer about repenting. Very quickly, I got to the point where if I would read that, I would say, what’s, this isn’t that we need to commit our life to Christ or we need to turn from our sins. But I started saying, you just need to recognize that He may change your desires. And if He does, you need to be willing to the fact that He may change your desires, but you don’t actually have to turn from your sins. 

And of course, later on, when I got to Dallas Seminary, I remember telling Zane Hodges that I would say that to people. And he goes, “That’s horrible. They don’t need to be willing to change. They just need to believe in Christ.” I was like, “Oh, Prof Hodges, you’re so right.” 

But at the time, that was a new thought for me. Because I thought I was quite liberal when I was on staff with Campus Crusade for Christ and just saying, all you need to do is be willing to recognize He might change your desire. And Zane was like, “No, you don’t need to recognize that. You just need to believe in Him.” 

PHILIPPE: Yeah. And I know again, to add some of what you were saying about the four spiritual laws, that’s one of the things that I struggled with. Because early on, I began to see that four spiritual laws was really conflating, you know, the matter of believing, in Christ for everlasting life and in the commitment, you know, to discipleship. So I will for many times, you know, as I was using the four spiritual laws, because it was kind of the expected thing to do, but I will skip the circles. And I will just focus on the matter of, again, just Ephesians 2:8-9 and John 3:16. And then the matter of assurance of everlasting life, which is a paragraph that’s in there in the four spiritual laws, going to 1 John 5:11-13, about a confirmation of assurance of everlasting life. 

BOB: I wish I’d done it your way. I didn’t until much later, but I can take a quick side story on that. After I got my doctorate from Dallas Seminary and taught for one semester at a college, Dallas Bible College became Woodcrest College, but it folded after the first semester. So I applied to a number of places. And one of the places that interviewed me was International School of Theology out in Arrowhead Springs. Campus Crusade had its own seminary. 

So I told the vice president that interviewed me over the phone, “I don’t use the four laws anymore. I just use the Bible, but I’ll be happy to teach students how to evangelize using the Bible.” And he said, that’s no problem. So I got out there. I taught seven different courses, six or seven different lectures. It went real well. And I got to the interview. And the guy says, “Are you prepared and willing to teach students how to share their faith using the four spiritual laws? Take them out and evangelize using the four laws?” I said, “Well, I’m happy to teach students how to share their faith. I just don’t use the four spiritual laws, but I would teach them how to do it using the Bible.” He’s like, “Well, why are you here? That’s a requirement.” 

So anyway, I got to where you were, but I didn’t do it while I was a student or while I was on staff. Now, I would skip lots of things like you said, but I would still read through the prayer and then just explain some things away and I would still go to the fact-faith-feeling diagram. Yeah, the train diagram, but I would do it afterwards. I like your idea of, no, do that while you’re evangelizing them. That’s what I should have done. 

But here’s another lesson I had. Both were from somebody named Mel. One was Melanie, a girl named Melanie. One was a guy named Mel. I was at Daytona Beach for a week for spring break. And I was evangelizing this guy at a bus stop. And the bus was coming up and I was rushing to get through the fourth law and the prayer. And Melanie’s like, “Just let the guy go.” “No, I got to finish this.” And she rebuked me after we were done. 

And then I remember my first year at Dallas Seminary. I had a ministry with Campus Crusade for Christ over at SMU. And so I was evangelizing with this guy named Mel. And again, I was going through the four laws with a person. And I was rushing to get through and the guy was wanting to ask some questions and make some comments. And I said, “Well, just hold that until I get through the booklet.” And Mel corrected me afterwards and he said, “You gotta let people talk.” 

PHILIPPE: One of the things that bothered me and eventually that led to [unintelligible] leaving staff and my going to DTS was because of that aspect that as a staff member, I had to fill out a weekly report, you know, of every encounter that I’ve had. And then I was told directly by my director that I could not count an evangelistic, classified as an evangelistic encounter unless I had read through the entire four spiritual laws. So unless I had gotten through reading the prayer or someone, I couldn’t count it. That really rankled me. 

BOB: That was exactly and I was very legalistic. So I was like, other staff, if they went part way through the booklet, they would just say they evangelized the person, right? But since I was told that, I felt like I’d be lying. If I said, I talked to this person and I evangelized them and they were—we used to put NCO for non-Christian open or prayed to receive Christ, we put PRC or whatever it was. 

Well, so like you, I felt like I had to be honest, but that meant I didn’t evangelize as many people as I talked to, but that led me to rushing and to interrupting people. And it was finally when Mel told me that, I finally got it. I don’t have to read through the whole booklet. I don’t have to go through the prayer. And after that, I realized I don’t have to use the booklet. I’ll just use the Bible.

One of the things that I came to realize was emphasizing the eternality of the salvation. And that is one thing I would emphasize when I was sharing the four laws with people, but even better when I stopped needing to use the four laws and just use the Bible.

Well, thanks so much, Philippe, and thank you all. Next time we’ll go over other things we learned during our time with Campus Crusade for Christ. And in the meantime, let’s all keep grace in focus. 

ANNOUNCER: Would you be interested in some free ebooks on topics you hear on this program? Well, if you are, you need to come visit us at faithalone.org. That’s faithalone.org. We would love to hear from you. Maybe you’ve got a question, comment, or some feedback. If you do, please don’t hesitate to send us a message. Here’s our email address. It’s radio@faithalone.org. That’s radio@faithalone.org. And when you do, very important, please let us know your radio station call letters in the city of your location. 

On our next episode, a continuation of today’s discussion, please join us and in the meantime, let’s keep grace in focus.