Transcript

ANNOUNCER: What are demons? Where did they come from? And what do they do? Are they fallen angels? How many of them are there? Let’s talk about these things today. So glad you’ve joined us. This is Grace in Focus, a radio broadcast and podcast ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society. You can find us at www.faithalone.org where you can also find out about our online seminary, it’s free, and you can earn an MDiv degree. One of the courses is Angelology. Same as the topic we’re dealing with right here on Grace in Focus. You can apply to study in our online seminary, Grace Evangelical Seminary, and then you’ll be ready in August when our classes start up again. That’s www.faithalone.org. 

And now with our discussion of the day, here are Bob Wilkin and Philippe Sterling. 

BOB: We’re continuing to talk about angels, and in this episode we want to talk about what are demons and what do they do. Now we touched in the last episode at the end about the fact that there is a view that suggests that demons are not another name for fallen angels. And that’s common, right? Most people, they just use those words interchangeably. 

PHILIPPE: Yes, that is a predominant view. 

BOB: If we hold the view in light of Genesis 6 and in light of 2nd Peter 2 verses 4 and 5, that demons are the offspring of fallen angels and women, but who died in the flood,  and so now their bodies are in the ocean somewhere, most likely because they died in the flood, or maybe their skeletons ended up on land somewhere and they became fossilized or something, who knows, but they no longer have a body. They’re disembodied spirits. So, but unlike humans who are also disembodied spirits when we die, and we have some sort of intermediate body—we know that because when Moses appears at the Mount of Transfiguration, he looks like Moses and he has a body and Peter wants to make a tabernacle for him. And we know that when Samuel appears, when Saul goes to the Witch at Endor and Samuel—

PHILIPPE: Yeah, he comes up from the depths of the earth. He says that he is at rest, his rest has been disturbed, but he’s able to come and to speak. And he looks like a real person and he’s wearing a cloak of some kind. 

BOB: But demons on the other hand are disembodied spirits. So, I kind of like to think of them as hermit crabs. Now, hermit crabs are actually crabs, but they lack the shell. So, they got to find a shell to live in. Well, demons, they’re a spirit being now. They used to be half-human, half-demon, or half-fallen angel, I mean. But now they’re just spirit beings. They lack bodies. And so, when they are free to roam the earth, they’re looking for bodies to possess. 

PHILIPPE: Right. There’s a case of the demon that is cast out of a person in the  Gospels. And then it says that the person’s habitation is cleansed. But then that demon goes out and finds seven other demons and they come back to that host, in essence. 

BOB: Yeah, but where does he go? It says he goes out and he finds seven more, but he finds—

PHILIPPE: In the waterless places. 

BOB: Waterless places. Look it up in your New Testament, you will see in Greek, it’s the word “without water”. Waterless places. And the question is, why would the Lord tell us they go to the waterless places? Why not just say, this demon goes out, he finds seven more, and the latter state of the man is worse than the first, right? Why tell us waterless places? Well, I think the reason is, if the demons all died in the flood, they all drowned. What do you think they’re going to fear? Water! 

PHILIPPE:  Yeah, they fear water. And again, the demoniac also who has legions of demons, they beg not to be, they want to be cast out into the pigs. But then, but the pigs went into the water and all of them drown and they end up— 

BOB: So it’s kind of talionic justice. What they fear they get, they end up drowning because the pigs run over the cliff and drown. And so they’re drowning again. So there’s lots of evidence in Scripture. And I would encourage all of you to study this for yourself. This may sound like Christian sci-fi, right? But it seems accurate that demons are the offspring of women and fallen angels that occurred once and only once in human history. We don’t know how many offspring there were, but probably this was a significant number hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands. We don’t know. 

PHILIPPE: They appear to have filled the earth, that those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. 

BOB: But of course, they were also the vast majority of humans would have been normal humans. These were men of renown. They were exception. And by the way, they’re all called men. So do we take the view that all of these offspring were male? In other words, it’s possible some of them could have been Wonder Woman. 

PHILIPPE: It’s possible. It’s man might be here. The mighty men could be generic. 

BOB: Yeah. So there are no examples, are there in the Old Testament, of demon possession? Is there any example anywhere in the Old Testament of anybody being possessed by a demon? 

PHILIPPE: I don’t recall any account of an exorcism and demon being cast out or anything as occurs with Christ and the apostles. That seems perhaps to have been something, particularly for the ministry of Christ on earth that was greatly then led to the manifestation of all these demons. 

BOB: Yeah, we don’t have any evidence of demon possession before the ministry of Jesus, right? 

PHILIPPE: They are some references in the Hebrew to demon. “Shade” would be the word twice. Deuteronomy 32:17 saying that they were sacrificing, the idols that they were sacrificing to were demons. And then also Psalm 106:37, talking about in the same sense. 

BOB: Okay. What’s the word for demon? 

PHILIPPE: The Hebrew word will be shade, phonetically, S-H-E-D. But there are other general references to an evil spirit, to a false spirit, to an unclean spirit, like in Zechariah. 

BOB: But those shade references could be references to fallen angels, right? 

PHILIPPE: Yes. 

BOB: There is a theory, and this is my theory, but of course, you may throw shade on it. But my theory is that we don’t see any demon possession until the ministry of Jesus, and it continues during the early ministry of the apostles. But it seems to end at some point near the end of the ministry of the apostles, and so that it’s kind of like when you put a diamond on a dark velvet, it makes the diamond really pop when you put light on it. Well, the demons were showing the power of God because Jesus was able to cast them out, and so were His disciples. 

PHILIPPE: And they were granted the authority to do so. But nowhere, are we told that the believers of the church age have that authority given to them. 

BOB: Right. Not only that, there’s no instruction in the epistles about here’s how you cast out demons. Wouldn’t we expect that if demons are possessing people during the church age that somewhere God would tell us how to do it? I mean, there’s no indication in the Gospels or Acts on how to do it.

ANNOUNCER: We will rejoin in just a moment, but years ago, Zane Hodges wrote the Gospel Under Siege. Sadly, this is still true, and GES president Bob Wilkin has recently written its sequel. Bob’s new book, The Gospel is Still Under Siege, is a book about theological clarity on the biblical teaching about eternal salvation. It is available now, secure yours today at the Grace Evangelical Society’s bookstore. Find it at faithalone.org/store. That’s faithalone.org/store. Now back to today’s content. 

BOB: I would say that demons were kept in Hades from the time they died in the flood until the ministry of Jesus, then they were released for a period of years, three and a half years during Jesus’s ministry, and maybe a few decades during the ministry of the apostles. So maybe they were released for 25 or 30 years. Then they were then cast back into Hades. I think to be released during the Tribulation. 

PHILIPPE: Right. In the book of Revelation, of course, there’s Abaddon, this leader, this prince, perhaps, among, the angel of the abyss, I think it’s called, and this whole host comes out of abyss and that’s perhaps demons that have been confined and then all released to afflict unbelieving mankind. 

BOB: All right, let me end with something very speculative, and this is a question I asked Zane Hodges, and he’d never heard it before, and that is, were the offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of men saveable. In other words, if one of these offspring had believed in the Lord Jesus Christ or the coming Messiah for their eternal destiny, do we expect to meet some of them? In other words, they won’t be demons because demons are a specific category once the unbelieving offspring died, but is it possible some of them believed in which case we’re going to see somebody like Goliath or like Hercules or whatever in the kingdom? 

PHILIPPE: It’s possible, and the way I think of it is we have these babies that are born, they are raised by their mothers in the function, the general human society, even though there are people of renown, you know, of great, great strength, and we know that’s probably a lot of people who died before the flood that are believers, and it’s possible that among them will have been some of the Nephilim there. They are human, at least half-human—

BOB: And otherwise you’d have to hold the view, if you say they’re all going to be sent to the lake of fire, then you would have to hold the view that they were born condemned, and that’s a view that’s inconsistent with God. God doesn’t create anyone that’s created condemned, not the angels, right? The angels who fell, chose to fall, and people who don’t believe in Christ are unwilling to come to faith, John 5, 39 and 40. So it seems to me that they were saveable. Now whether they actually were born again or not, I don’t know, but don’t, please don’t go tell anybody that I said that there are going to be demons in the kingdom. They won’t be called demons, they’ll called humans, but they’re going to be called men of renown, if you want to use Scripture. So will there be any men of renown in the kingdom? I think maybe. I would say it’s at least possible that some of the offspring came to faith in Christ because God’s not condemning anybody from the moment of conception, which would be the case if you hold that view.

PHILIPPE: And these beings can die and did die. Well, angels don’t die. Right, exactly. But this hybrid, because they are humans as well, dying, and if they’ve died, then it’s possible that some would have believed and would have been regenerated. 

BOB: And by the way, I had a hybrid and it died too, but that’s my car. So that’s a different story. All right. 

PHILIPPE: Well, because that’s a tertiary matter. You know, too, just sanctified speculation, as, I think, Ken Yates sometimes refers to it.

BOB: Yes, think about this, pray about it. But I think some of this is clear from Scripture, especially the linkage of Genesis 6 and 2nd Peter 2:4-5. But you study for yourself, and remember to keep grace in focus. 

ANNOUNCER: Be sure to check out our daily blogs at faithalone.org. They are short and full of great teaching, just like what you’ve heard today. Find them at faithalong.org/resources/blog. We would love to hear from you. Maybe you’ve got a question, comment, or some feedback. If you do, please don’t hesitate to send us a message. Here’s our email address. It’s radio@faithalone.org. That’s radio@faithalone.org. And when you do, very important, please let us know your radio station call letters and the city of your location. 

On our next episode, any relation between aliens and angels? Please join us and in the meantime, let’s keep grace in focus.