Transcript

ANNOUNCER: It is the big question from Genesis chapter 6. Did fallen angels procreate with women? What actually happened in Genesis 6 that precipitated the flood? Who are the Nephilim and what are demons? Well, thank you for joining us today, friend. This is Grace in Focus. And we are coming to you from the Grace Evangelical Society. Our website is faithalone.org and we also have a YouTube channel, it’s YouTube Grace Evangelical Society. There we release short videos, a couple of times a week, with information and teaching along the lines of our purpose, and our Free Grace position. So YouTube, Grace Evangelical Society, love to see you there. And our website again is faithalone.org 

Now with today’s topic, here are Bob Wilkin and Philippe Sterling. 

BOB: We’re continuing to talk about the study of angels, angelology, very interesting stuff. And before we get into Genesis 6 and the sons of God, let’s say a brief word about how many angels are there? Are there a hundred or are there a thousand? How many angels are there, do we think? 

PHILIPPE: We’re not given a specific number, but maybe we are. For example in Revelation chapter 5 verse 11, we read, “Then I looked and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, living creatures and the elders. And the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand and thousands of thousands.” So here this is the number of the angels confirmed, in holiness, that are here all assembled worshiping around the throne of God. And so we have ten thousand times ten thousand. 

BOB: Well, yeah, in fact in Greek, my understanding is that the largest number you would have in Greek is this word myriades, which we get the word myriad from or myriads. It’s essentially ten thousand. So if this is ten thousands of ten thousands, that would be 100 million. Didn’t Jesus say he could have called for how many legions of angels? 

PHILIPPE: I think he said, “I could have called upon twelve legions of angels.”

BOB: And the legion was somewhere between like three and six thousand. 

PHILIPPE: Right, a Roman legion was around three to six thousand. 

BOB: So that would be thirty-six to seventy-two thousand angels at the minimum. So there’s at least say thirty-six thousand angels, but there are probably millions of angels, right? 

PHILIPPE: Even in that passage in Revelation 5:11, it goes on to say that myriads and myriads beyond myriads times myriads. So I would think they are certainly hundreds of millions, perhaps billions. Because when we come to, well, the Rapture of the Church and then the resurrection of Old Testament believers and Tribulation believers, we’re talking about billions of believers. So I would imagine they are going to be equal numbers or perhaps even greater number of angels as well. 

BOB: Okay, let’s go to Genesis chapter 6. And let’s take a look there because before the flood, there’s an event that precipitates the need for the flood. And that event is where the sons of God intermarry with the daughters of men. And the question is who are the sons of God and who are the daughters of men? Now there are different views, but could you read the passage and then tell us what you think? 

PHILIPPE: Sure. This would be Genesis chapter 6:1-4. “Now it came to pass when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were beautiful and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. And the Lord said, ‘My spirit shall not strive with men forever for He is indeed flesh. Yet His days shall be 120 years.’ There were giants on the earth in those days and also afterward when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.” 

And of course in mythology, we have accounts of demigods, Hercules and others. Even now, there is this fascination of super beings that we have. Whether it’s Superman coming from the planet of Krypton or whether it’s— 

BOB: Or the Avengers, Spiderman, Batman, werewolves, the vampires, the Thor and the whole Thor series. That’s Norse mythology and you’ve got Greek mythology. But all of that may have some sort of original basis in fact. 

PHILIPPE: Yes. And connection of somehow interaction between gods and people and having progenies. You know, because there was a whole series of movies about a vampire, you know, marrying a young woman, and then having a special child. So I think that carries back, you know, to the possible origin of super beings in Genesis chapter 6. 

BOB: Right. And we’ll talk for a minute because they’re called Nephilim, right? Their offspring are called giants or Nephilim. And we’re going to talk about that more in a minute. But let’s look at 2 Peter chapter 2. In 2 Peter 2, Peter appears to be talking about this because Peter says in verse 4, “For if God did not spare the angels who sin, but cast them down to hell”, and the word here is Tartarus. He’s confining them in a place called Tartarus. 

PHILIPPE: That’s a separate place from Hades or Sheol. 

BOB: Right. “And delivered them into the chains of darkness to be reserved for judgment.” Well, we know that not all angels are currently in chains and being reserved for judgment, right?  And remember that when Jesus is casting out the Gadarene demoniac, they said, “Have you come to torment us before the time?” They know that there are certain currently fallen angels being held and they don’t want to join them. But notice it says, “and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight persons, a preacher of righteousness bringing the flood on the world of the ungodly.” Peter seems to be connecting the angels who sin with Noah. Not only that, but this doesn’t appear to refer to the original fall of angels. This is a second sinning. 

PHILIPPE: Yes. 

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BOB: There are other views by the way of Genesis 6. Some people say this refers to the godly line and the ungodly line. 

PHILIPPE: The descendants of Cain and then of Seth. In another view, it’s just fallen angels, but in essence, were possessing certain great kings, but they weren’t actually propagating. 

BOB: That’s partly because some people think they didn’t really have bodies, but that’s not correct. It seems pretty clear from 2 Peter chapter 2, that this is the case. Now, let’s talk about the Nephilim before the flood because that Hebrew word Nephilim also occurs after the flood. So before the flood, who are the Nephilim? 

PHILIPPE: Well, the Nephilim before the flood, I think is what Genesis 6:1-4 is speaking about. So there was a group of angels, the sons of God who transgressed their boundary and took on beautiful women as wives and had offspring that are called Nephilim. But who were extraordinary. 

BOB: I mean, we could translate that something like giants? 

PHILIPPE: Yes, later on, especially with references post-flood, I think it’s just a general term for giant. That Nephilim is being used in that sense. But in Genesis 6, the indication I think is these were actually offspring of angels and daughters of men. 

BOB: Okay. So we probably shouldn’t be thinking these are fifty foot tall humans, but the Nephilim after the flood, like Goliath, is either around nine foot nine or around six foot nine. There are some different manuscripts. So it could have been as tall as almost ten feet, but clearly huge. Goliath was probably well over three hundred pounds and extremely strong.

PHILIPPE: And he had brothers. And one of his brothers had these strange things of having six fingers and six toes. So it’s talking about a genetic anomaly. 

BOB: There’s different views, but it would probably be fair to say all of the offspring of the giants died in the flood. So that any Nephilim after the flood is just using that word to refer to giants, it’s no longer saying giants who were the offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of men. 

PHILIPPE: Right. It’s not likely that there was a third fall of angels. It was a post-flood. I think after Genesis 6, God wouldn’t allow it. 

BOB: So that’s not going to happen anymore. 

PHILIPPE: And that was part of the reason for the flood. The wickedness that filled the earth, partly as a reason of this transgression that occurred. 

BOB: Well, the other thing is these fallen angels probably thought they could do this with immunity. And when they end up being cast into Tartarus and being held for the lake of fire, all the other fallen angels would be like, whoa, whoa, that we don’t want to go there. So you’ve got a situation that ultimately led to God destroying all of mankind except for eight people. And all the animals except for the animals that were on the ark or the ones that could survive like in the water. 

PHILIPPE: Yes. That brings up the matter then of that category of demons that are spoken of. 

BOB: Okay. So we’re going to get on this more in the next episode, but what then are demons? Some people say demons are just another name for fallen angels, but isn’t it possible that the demons are the offspring, they’re the Nephilim, the offspring of fallen angels and women, who died in the flood and are now disembodied spirits? 

PHILIPPE: Yes. That is one view, and I think it can be supported. Several accounts that we have of demons in the Gospels, certainly in the interaction with Jesus and with the apostles. And, you know, when it talks about they’re in waterless places, but they’re seeking embodiment. 

BOB: Okay. Now you’re whetting my appetite with the waterless places and they’re seeking bodies to possess and things. So next time we’ll talk more about demons and this whole question. Ultimately, this is part of the world that God has created. Now, He didn’t want the angels to fall, but in our current existence, they’re part of our world. Of course, once we’re on the new earth, the fallen angels will be removed to the lake of fire and we’re not going to have any interaction with them. But for now, we fight against forces of darkness. 

PHILIPPE: Right. In Ephesians 6, “Our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the powers and the principalities and the rulers in high places.”

BOB: All right, well, very good, and in the meantime, let’s all keep grace in focus. 

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Thank you so much for joining us this week. On our next episode, we continue our angel series. We hope you have a great weekend. Fellowship with other believers in a Bible-teaching church. And let’s keep grace in focus.